Why is the new CTR so slow?
12-20-2017, 09:33 AM
#141
They're not as useful as a hatchback but I wouldn't call it "useless".
I do believe the S2000 is useless as actual cars tbh lol. I love my S2000 but there are times where if the S2000 was my only car, it would be hard to do some of the stuff I needed to do.
But the Mustang and the Camaro has a lot more space so I don't believe it to be useless as actual cars. Just not as useful as a wagon/hatchback.
I do believe the S2000 is useless as actual cars tbh lol. I love my S2000 but there are times where if the S2000 was my only car, it would be hard to do some of the stuff I needed to do.
But the Mustang and the Camaro has a lot more space so I don't believe it to be useless as actual cars. Just not as useful as a wagon/hatchback.
12-30-2017, 09:40 AM
#142
I think alot of it is that, but also the timing of this thing. Remember when EVOs and STIs were giant slayers? Most of what I'm going to say is based on straight line numbers, but bear with me. Their numbers at the time were ridiculous, and in reality still impressive today. No one liked the fact that it was based on a cheap econo box with a huge wing, but you forgave those because they were legit giant killers, especially when you started modding them, and still are. But that was when the V8 pony cars were going to 60 in the 5s still and 13 second quartermile times were still really fast, those cars didn't really handle great, and the likes of Porsches and BMWs weren't that much faster. All 911s now do not need any apologies, they are all fast period. Base v8 pony cars now run in the sub 13s and can actually handle. So now you bring another factory tuned up car, with crazy boy racer stuff all over it, but it really isn't much faster than the giant killers that came before it, trying to play in today's market against legit competition, that's why it's been received the way it has. There will always be a lot of people who will only buy Japanese, or imports, especially Honda types, so they can show up to tuner meets and be the king of the castle, ain't nothing wrong with that and that's alot of the fun of our hobby. But outside of that crowd it will have difficultly with finding enthusiasts.
And then it's a FWD. Yes, apparently in the stock setup, this CTR seems to do wonders, but I can't remember a single EVO/STI/WRX/etc owner almost ever that bought these cars and didn't factor in the modding potential of those cars, and when you start increasing power, you will want awd or rwd. These cars are underdog cars that the average man can buy to go to the track, show up at a stop light, and take on those bougie high dollar cars. And that's where alot of the notoriety comes from.
Cool cars, but it does nothing for me. It's not light for a fwd car (3000lbs), not astonishing quick for its price especially when you consider markup, it is practical, and I don't like the way it looks or sounds, and I sure as hell don't like the way I look in one. yeah yeah I don't care what others think, blah blah, I see you guys saying that then going back to your pristine cars, I don't see any of you guys driving beat up, rusted out whatevers because driver brah. I'd love an Si for a DD though, just wish that one came in a hatch.
And then it's a FWD. Yes, apparently in the stock setup, this CTR seems to do wonders, but I can't remember a single EVO/STI/WRX/etc owner almost ever that bought these cars and didn't factor in the modding potential of those cars, and when you start increasing power, you will want awd or rwd. These cars are underdog cars that the average man can buy to go to the track, show up at a stop light, and take on those bougie high dollar cars. And that's where alot of the notoriety comes from.
Cool cars, but it does nothing for me. It's not light for a fwd car (3000lbs), not astonishing quick for its price especially when you consider markup, it is practical, and I don't like the way it looks or sounds, and I sure as hell don't like the way I look in one. yeah yeah I don't care what others think, blah blah, I see you guys saying that then going back to your pristine cars, I don't see any of you guys driving beat up, rusted out whatevers because driver brah. I'd love an Si for a DD though, just wish that one came in a hatch.
So far the CTR has been highly praised and well received by most publications. The major issue is the styling. With 6MT and FWD, I don't think the focus of the CTR is on drag racing like the AWD competitors.
3100lb isn't light, but the AWD competitors are at 3400-3500lb already. Hard to compare a car from 2000 to a car made in 2017 IMO.
You make some really good points here. A used (60 miles!) CTR popped up here locally in Vancouver for $49,999. MSRP is $45K but you can't sell over MSRP in Canada so they instead gouge you on a "used" one.
However, I can buy a BRAND NEW Camaro SS 1LE for $48,900 (locally) that will be faster around a track, faster on the street, should be just as reliable, has 455 hp, sounds better, looks better, RWD, etc, etc.... Why would I even think of a CTR, if I'm buying new (at $45K) or used (for even more money)? It doesn't even make sense, from a performance standpoint. To be fair, I'll be able to wind out the CTR a lot more on public roads, which is "more fun" in a sense, but other than that, it pales in comparison to the SS 1LE.
Your pricing in the USA makes a little more sense but still.... I haven't driven a CTR and maybe it is significantly more agile/lithe/athletic compared to a 1LE but I'm betting I'd love the V8 sound, RWD dynamics and relative simplicity of the Camaro overall.
However, I can buy a BRAND NEW Camaro SS 1LE for $48,900 (locally) that will be faster around a track, faster on the street, should be just as reliable, has 455 hp, sounds better, looks better, RWD, etc, etc.... Why would I even think of a CTR, if I'm buying new (at $45K) or used (for even more money)? It doesn't even make sense, from a performance standpoint. To be fair, I'll be able to wind out the CTR a lot more on public roads, which is "more fun" in a sense, but other than that, it pales in comparison to the SS 1LE.
Your pricing in the USA makes a little more sense but still.... I haven't driven a CTR and maybe it is significantly more agile/lithe/athletic compared to a 1LE but I'm betting I'd love the V8 sound, RWD dynamics and relative simplicity of the Camaro overall.
I'd imagine a person looking for a hatchback probably has different requirements than someone looking for a coupe. For instance, I bought a CTR because of its combination of price, performance, handling, looks, and practicality. My wife is pregnant and so the 25cu.ft of trunk space with the rear seats up is a big advantage over the 8cu.ft trunk in a camaro lol when I need to fit all the baby gear and a car seat.
Having said that, the beauty of the Camaro is the availability of its 1LE track pkg which makes it a giant slayer:
Front aero splitter
F1 Supercar 3 track tires specially made for the camaro by Goodyear (way better than the pedestrian grade contisportcontact 6 tires on the CTR)
Bucket seats
Brembo brakes
Performance exhaust
Magnetic ride control
eLSD
Tuned suspension system
This pkg of course gonna cost you and it's $7k, bringing the total to $45k.
Not sure how fast the Camaro SS is on a track, as most of the lap times I can find have the 1LE package.
12-30-2017, 10:19 AM
#143
But is the Camaro like virtually all other domestics, where you can buy them at 15-20% off MSRP? Not really fair to compare MSRP when one car sells at a substantial discount and the other actually sells for MSRP or higher.
12-30-2017, 01:09 PM
#144
I don't know all of the options needed, but just checking the 1LE box on a Camaro SS ends up at $2.5k under MSRP -- $47.5k -- as the average sale price on TrueCar. Now add your taxes and fees. Basically a $53-55k car out the door. Civic Type R comes out to about $37.2k as the average price before TTL... so it's a 10-11k difference after taxes, basically a quarter of the car. Chevy options are numerous, so I'd imagine you're going to need to order a car to spec to get it that cheap (if you even can) in reality.
12-30-2017, 01:12 PM
#145
To the OP the M2 doesn't have a big faggy wing on the back slowing it down on the straights. This is conjecture of course, but aero does play a big role in high speed acceleration.
For the whole value proposition thing, if I was buying a new car to drive and have fun with and performance was #1, for the price I would go 2018 Mustang Fastback. Here in Canada it starts a few grand less than the CTR.
Although I am putting money down on the 2018 Golf R soon as I need practicality, and I want a nice car and not a ricey one.
For the whole value proposition thing, if I was buying a new car to drive and have fun with and performance was #1, for the price I would go 2018 Mustang Fastback. Here in Canada it starts a few grand less than the CTR.
Although I am putting money down on the 2018 Golf R soon as I need practicality, and I want a nice car and not a ricey one.
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rwheelz (12-30-2017)
12-30-2017, 08:39 PM
#146
The camaro ss 1le is 45k with only 1 option, the performance data recorder which is about 1200, the rest of the options are trivial accessories. Most on the lots are around 45 sticker and 2k off is standard, 7k off being a grand slam deal. Over sticker is laughable. Or wait for a 20% sale which which they didn't do on the camaro SSs last year, correct me if im wrong.
So you get leather alcantara recaros, suede steering wheel and shifter, heads up display, mag shocks, 6 pot front brembos, 20" forged rims, dual mod exhaust, heavy duty engine trans and diff cooling, auto rev match, short shifter, and the cosmetic stuff. It's practically as fast as a gt350 track pack around tracks. And a communicative chassis that's has that it factor, same platform that the ats is on that got great praise.
The 1le package felt special in the very limited time I drove it, but the mags love it.
Oh and it flirts with 11 second quarter miles too stock, and people are putting down 500hp with bolt one and tunes.
The new 18 mustang gt catches up to the camaro engine wise, but it's the chassis that makes me keep looking at the camaro. And option for option the camaro 1le is cheaper than the stang by a good margin.
So you get leather alcantara recaros, suede steering wheel and shifter, heads up display, mag shocks, 6 pot front brembos, 20" forged rims, dual mod exhaust, heavy duty engine trans and diff cooling, auto rev match, short shifter, and the cosmetic stuff. It's practically as fast as a gt350 track pack around tracks. And a communicative chassis that's has that it factor, same platform that the ats is on that got great praise.
The 1le package felt special in the very limited time I drove it, but the mags love it.
Oh and it flirts with 11 second quarter miles too stock, and people are putting down 500hp with bolt one and tunes.
The new 18 mustang gt catches up to the camaro engine wise, but it's the chassis that makes me keep looking at the camaro. And option for option the camaro 1le is cheaper than the stang by a good margin.
12-30-2017, 08:43 PM
#147
So far the CTR has been highly praised and well received by most publications. The major issue is the styling. With 6MT and FWD, I don't think the focus of the CTR is on drag racing like the AWD competitors.
3100lb isn't light, but the AWD competitors are at 3400-3500lb already. Hard to compare a car from 2000 to a car made in 2017 IMO.
3100lb isn't light, but the AWD competitors are at 3400-3500lb already. Hard to compare a car from 2000 to a car made in 2017 IMO.
01-02-2018, 10:11 PM
#148
I understand where you are coming from. Like if you want to put like 600+hp, then it's probably not a good idea, and kinda defeats the purpose of the CTR. After all, as mentioned, the idea of the FK8 CTR is to be a decently fast, practical, and comfortable car that is also highly affordable and street-friendly (i.e. responsible engine with good tractability and minimal amount of turbo lag).
01-03-2018, 07:20 AM
#149
I understand where you are coming from. Like if you want to put like 600+hp, then it's probably not a good idea, and kinda defeats the purpose of the CTR. After all, as mentioned, the idea of the FK8 CTR is to be a decently fast, practical, and comfortable car that is also highly affordable and street-friendly (i.e. responsible engine with good tractability and minimal amount of turbo lag).
01-03-2018, 07:40 AM
#150
lol to who, You?
How are They useless as actual cars? That statement makes no sense...If you're making this comment based on seating does that make the S2K useless as an actual car as well?
Perhaps even more so, both the Mustang and the Camaro actually have back seats, though tight they are, they're there...and they happen to fold down, giving both a pretty decent amount of storage space...How is that useless?
Not everyone has a family that needs 4 doors.
How are They useless as actual cars? That statement makes no sense...If you're making this comment based on seating does that make the S2K useless as an actual car as well?
Perhaps even more so, both the Mustang and the Camaro actually have back seats, though tight they are, they're there...and they happen to fold down, giving both a pretty decent amount of storage space...How is that useless?
Not everyone has a family that needs 4 doors.
So are the Mustang & Camaro.
But not sure why I'm wasting my time on dudes like you & the other resident dick swinger dudes who post in this subforum.
They're not as useful as a hatchback but I wouldn't call it "useless".
I do believe the S2000 is useless as actual cars tbh lol. I love my S2000 but there are times where if the S2000 was my only car, it would be hard to do some of the stuff I needed to do.
But the Mustang and the Camaro has a lot more space so I don't believe it to be useless as actual cars. Just not as useful as a wagon/hatchback.
I do believe the S2000 is useless as actual cars tbh lol. I love my S2000 but there are times where if the S2000 was my only car, it would be hard to do some of the stuff I needed to do.
But the Mustang and the Camaro has a lot more space so I don't believe it to be useless as actual cars. Just not as useful as a wagon/hatchback.
Camaro has the worst back seat of any car I've ever been in & the interior feels like it belongs to a $11,000 Spark with all the visibility of a tank.
I guess if you're only goal was to make yourself look like a tool, you've really aced things.