what's the 'better' engine? M3 V8 or 335 I6 turbo?
05-25-2008, 05:08 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
I see where a lot of people are in love with the I6 turbo because of it's fuel economy or the M3s lack thereof.
This is really something to laugh at. I mean if Ferrari offered a F430 that had a I6 (for example) would people worry about saving $10 a fill-up?
It's silly
the I6 rated 17/26 would be 21 average - - lord know what the engine gets when it's modded has to be less. More power has to come from somewhere more power = lower fuel economy.
the V8 is rated at 14/20 would be 17 mpg average.
What's the diff between 17 and 21 mpg? Gee the I6 must be a world saver, you sure that's not a synergy drive hybrid in the 335i?
if gas costs ~$4.20 / gal drive 12K miles a year you'd pay $10.50 more a week for the V8.
NOTE that's if you don't modify the turbo. If you modify the gas savings likely goes away and the cost difference is less since you are spending money on mods which are worth nothing for a trade in and may void the factory warranty.
I just read BMW is able to read the engine sensors and tell if the engine has been modified and is voiding the warranty of modified turbos.
these cars are $50K to $70K (typical) not sure if owners worry about if they pay $70 or $80 a fill-up. Its a performance/luxury car and people are paying extra for performance/luxury they are buying a 335i or M3 instead of a Prius. They are not worried about fuel economy IMO.
This is really something to laugh at. I mean if Ferrari offered a F430 that had a I6 (for example) would people worry about saving $10 a fill-up?
It's silly
the I6 rated 17/26 would be 21 average - - lord know what the engine gets when it's modded has to be less. More power has to come from somewhere more power = lower fuel economy.
the V8 is rated at 14/20 would be 17 mpg average.
What's the diff between 17 and 21 mpg? Gee the I6 must be a world saver, you sure that's not a synergy drive hybrid in the 335i?
if gas costs ~$4.20 / gal drive 12K miles a year you'd pay $10.50 more a week for the V8.
NOTE that's if you don't modify the turbo. If you modify the gas savings likely goes away and the cost difference is less since you are spending money on mods which are worth nothing for a trade in and may void the factory warranty.
I just read BMW is able to read the engine sensors and tell if the engine has been modified and is voiding the warranty of modified turbos.
these cars are $50K to $70K (typical) not sure if owners worry about if they pay $70 or $80 a fill-up. Its a performance/luxury car and people are paying extra for performance/luxury they are buying a 335i or M3 instead of a Prius. They are not worried about fuel economy IMO.
05-25-2008, 05:27 AM
#12
I've driven both and other turbo cars and theres nothing than NA response... Just recently I took a ride in a F430, you can't beat a well tuned NA engine to a turbo engine...
05-25-2008, 05:28 AM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
I will continue to say, the Media is mainly to blame about the mass hysteria around gas prices. It's nothing, gas costs ~.75c more than last year. Every day I read about oh-no the gas went up 3 cents last week.
IMO an extra $20 a week should not effect anyone. Some people spend more than that on a haircut. I mean go to the movie costs $70 for a family of 4 no one is worried about that. It's not the lead story on the news. But $70 for a tank oif gas and the sky is falling.
I mean especially here on car talk where for the most part people are auto entheuasts, I would think gas fuel economy would not be the main priority of a car.
would you rather have a GTi or Si or MS3 or a Prius? Have to think about that one?
the first 3 get ~25 mpg and the Prius gets ~38 (?) so all hands should say Prius. No more Challanger, V8 SC Mustangs, 911s that get 16/24 mpg (OMG world killer whoever drive a 911 getting such poor economy).
There is a web site can look up the fuel economy cars.
--->>click
Carrera GT 9/15 cty/hw (anyone drive one will go to hell)
Cayenne Turbo 12/17 cty/hw (are you kidding me 5000 lbs and 500 hp WTF)
Lambo Murcielago 8/12 (obviously the engine is no good and would be better with a I6 turbo)
Viper 11/19 (thanks for trying you won't be needed any more)
Ford GT 12/19 (sinner)
Ferrari F599 GTB 10/14 (has to be the worst engine ever created right? It's got poor economy therefore it's a bad engine).
you get the point.
IMO an extra $20 a week should not effect anyone. Some people spend more than that on a haircut. I mean go to the movie costs $70 for a family of 4 no one is worried about that. It's not the lead story on the news. But $70 for a tank oif gas and the sky is falling.
I mean especially here on car talk where for the most part people are auto entheuasts, I would think gas fuel economy would not be the main priority of a car.
would you rather have a GTi or Si or MS3 or a Prius? Have to think about that one?
the first 3 get ~25 mpg and the Prius gets ~38 (?) so all hands should say Prius. No more Challanger, V8 SC Mustangs, 911s that get 16/24 mpg (OMG world killer whoever drive a 911 getting such poor economy).
There is a web site can look up the fuel economy cars.
--->>click
Carrera GT 9/15 cty/hw (anyone drive one will go to hell)
Cayenne Turbo 12/17 cty/hw (are you kidding me 5000 lbs and 500 hp WTF)
Lambo Murcielago 8/12 (obviously the engine is no good and would be better with a I6 turbo)
Viper 11/19 (thanks for trying you won't be needed any more)
Ford GT 12/19 (sinner)
Ferrari F599 GTB 10/14 (has to be the worst engine ever created right? It's got poor economy therefore it's a bad engine).
you get the point.
05-25-2008, 05:46 AM
#14
Rai,
For one car that does it all, I'd consider an M3 for a lease since I wouldn't own it out of warranty. Otherwise, for a decent daily driver nice car, I'd take the 335i and pocket $20-25k.
I rode in a new M3 (didn't get to drive it unfortunately) and it sounds great, has good power, chassis feels nicely controlled without beating you up. It's a nice car, there is no doubt about it.
Afterwards, when my buddy and I brought the M3 back to the BMW dealership and I jumped into my modded '08 Vette, it felt so much different than the M3 motor. The instant torque hit that throws you back in the seat and the screaming 6.2L motor definitely was more my style, but the tightly wound sound of the M3 V8 has some nice appeal as well.
Gas mileage/cost doesn't really bother me, but it is something that people will consider when looking at different cars. The cost of the car, fuel economy, etc. of the M3 is a big reason why there are several M3's sitting at each BMW dealership now.
Re: your M3 purchase, after you find out whether your deposit is refundable, you should go in there and tell them that the market has softened significantly and you want $1-2k (or more) off of MSRP. If they don't do it, you should consider walking.
For one car that does it all, I'd consider an M3 for a lease since I wouldn't own it out of warranty. Otherwise, for a decent daily driver nice car, I'd take the 335i and pocket $20-25k.
I rode in a new M3 (didn't get to drive it unfortunately) and it sounds great, has good power, chassis feels nicely controlled without beating you up. It's a nice car, there is no doubt about it.
Afterwards, when my buddy and I brought the M3 back to the BMW dealership and I jumped into my modded '08 Vette, it felt so much different than the M3 motor. The instant torque hit that throws you back in the seat and the screaming 6.2L motor definitely was more my style, but the tightly wound sound of the M3 V8 has some nice appeal as well.
Gas mileage/cost doesn't really bother me, but it is something that people will consider when looking at different cars. The cost of the car, fuel economy, etc. of the M3 is a big reason why there are several M3's sitting at each BMW dealership now.
Re: your M3 purchase, after you find out whether your deposit is refundable, you should go in there and tell them that the market has softened significantly and you want $1-2k (or more) off of MSRP. If they don't do it, you should consider walking.
05-25-2008, 06:00 AM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=QUIKAG,May 25 2008, 05:46 AM] Re: your M3 purchase, after you find out whether your deposit is refundable, you should go in there and tell them that the market has softened significantly and you want $1-2k (or more) off of MSRP.
05-25-2008, 06:28 AM
#17
Registered User
Consider this,SSTT adds about 40hp/40 torque for $500 plus I can sell it when I'm done. The car has instantaneous torque down low and although it craps out up top it still feels really quick for a 4 seater and is great power for the street. The SSTT is undetectable and installs and removes in minutes.You can also get a Dinan reflash for 1200 or so with a warranty but since I'm leasing that's not a good option.We still get 21/22 combined mileage ( that's combined with me and my wife driving 
) which is better than my Odyssey! With the extra 20k you save you can buy a lot of gas even at 5 bucks a gallon. 
) which is better than my Odyssey! With the extra 20k you save you can buy a lot of gas even at 5 bucks a gallon.
05-25-2008, 11:19 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by rai,May 25 2008, 05:28 AM
I will continue to say, the Media is mainly to blame about the mass hysteria around gas prices. It's nothing, gas costs ~.75c more than last year. Every day I read about oh-no the gas went up 3 cents last week.
IMO an extra $20 a week should not effect anyone. Some people spend more than that on a haircut. I mean go to the movie costs $70 for a family of 4 no one is worried about that. It's not the lead story on the news. But $70 for a tank oif gas and the sky is falling.
I mean especially here on car talk where for the most part people are auto entheuasts, I would think gas fuel economy would not be the main priority of a car.
would you rather have a GTi or Si or MS3 or a Prius? Have to think about that one?
the first 3 get ~25 mpg and the Prius gets ~38 (?) so all hands should say Prius. No more Challanger, V8 SC Mustangs, 911s that get 16/24 mpg (OMG world killer whoever drive a 911 getting such poor economy).
There is a web site can look up the fuel economy cars.
--->>click
Carrera GT 9/15 cty/hw (anyone drive one will go to hell)
Cayenne Turbo 12/17 cty/hw (are you kidding me 5000 lbs and 500 hp WTF)
Lambo Murcielago 8/12 (obviously the engine is no good and would be better with a I6 turbo)
Viper 11/19 (thanks for trying you won't be needed any more)
Ford GT 12/19 (sinner)
Ferrari F599 GTB 10/14 (has to be the worst engine ever created right? It's got poor economy therefore it's a bad engine).
you get the point.
IMO an extra $20 a week should not effect anyone. Some people spend more than that on a haircut. I mean go to the movie costs $70 for a family of 4 no one is worried about that. It's not the lead story on the news. But $70 for a tank oif gas and the sky is falling.
I mean especially here on car talk where for the most part people are auto entheuasts, I would think gas fuel economy would not be the main priority of a car.
would you rather have a GTi or Si or MS3 or a Prius? Have to think about that one?
the first 3 get ~25 mpg and the Prius gets ~38 (?) so all hands should say Prius. No more Challanger, V8 SC Mustangs, 911s that get 16/24 mpg (OMG world killer whoever drive a 911 getting such poor economy).
There is a web site can look up the fuel economy cars.
--->>click
Carrera GT 9/15 cty/hw (anyone drive one will go to hell)
Cayenne Turbo 12/17 cty/hw (are you kidding me 5000 lbs and 500 hp WTF)
Lambo Murcielago 8/12 (obviously the engine is no good and would be better with a I6 turbo)
Viper 11/19 (thanks for trying you won't be needed any more)
Ford GT 12/19 (sinner)
Ferrari F599 GTB 10/14 (has to be the worst engine ever created right? It's got poor economy therefore it's a bad engine).
you get the point.
However, fuel costs don't only effect fuel prices-it effects the prices of everything transported on trucks-which is everything besides coal for the most part.
The majority of grains use petroleum based fertilizers which get more and more expensive causing grains to get more expensive. So while your $20 a week for fuel is probably accurate, if you add in a portion of that as an increase grains, processed foods, all goods that travel by semi [99% of them], it ends up being 40-50$ a week in basic goods costs. That adds up quickly for those that don't have a lot of excess cash which isn't just poor people. I know several couples with kids in ivy league/etc. schools that after contributing to retirement accounts have almost zero 'extra' money although they both make well in to the 6 figures. Lowered consumption is bad for everyone, especially if it doesn't correlate proportionally with increased savings which sure as hell isn't happening.
05-25-2008, 04:31 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=sahtt,May 25 2008, 11:19 AM] No doubt people seriously over exaggerate the effect of say an additional 1$ in gasoline prices.
However, fuel costs don't only effect fuel prices-it effects the prices of everything transported on trucks-which is everything besides coal for the most part.
The majority of grains use petroleum based fertilizers which get more and more expensive causing grains to get more expensive.
However, fuel costs don't only effect fuel prices-it effects the prices of everything transported on trucks-which is everything besides coal for the most part.
The majority of grains use petroleum based fertilizers which get more and more expensive causing grains to get more expensive.
05-25-2008, 04:59 PM
#20
Registered User
dj had the best answer for why NA over FI. It is all throttle response. Sure there are low-lag systems out there but it seems as if nothing matches the get-what-you-ask-for of a really well tuned NA engine. FI motors tend to have slight unpredictable response, enough to matter when you're feeding in power from the apex of a turn.
As an example, that was the #1 reason the high-level RX7TT (FD) Solo2 drivers I knew switched to the C5 Z06 when it first came out. In handling and raw power the RX7 was a probably a comparable car (I never drove one) but throttle response was just a bit wild compared to the Z06.
As an example, that was the #1 reason the high-level RX7TT (FD) Solo2 drivers I knew switched to the C5 Z06 when it first came out. In handling and raw power the RX7 was a probably a comparable car (I never drove one) but throttle response was just a bit wild compared to the Z06.