TheDonEffect

Well as we talked about, they're dead, so super recent examples are limited. But leading up to the death, trying to keep it somewhat recent, without including hatchbacks, and keeping it somewhat affordable:

Acura TSX Wagon
Acura ZDX
Buick Regal
Cadillac CTS Wagon
Chevrolet Malibu Wagon
Dodge Magnum
Honda Crosstour
Honda Element?
Ford Cmax
Subaru Outback
Subaru Forester originally can be argued was a wagon
Toyota Venza (first edition)
Toyota Prius V
Volvo V70
Volkswagen Jetta Wagon

I'm sure there are others.

I don't disagree on your perspective about "affordable", but that's a separate discussion.

Fact is, people are buying cars they perceive to be affordable such as CUVs, which are/were direct competitors to my aforementioned list.



Again, separate discussion on what is indeed "affordable". Point is, people find Toyota Highlanders as sensible, affordable, family vehicles, as well as Toyota Siennas. I agree, 40k is hardly what I consider to be financially responsible for 95% of Americans to buy, including me, unless you're Quikag who can afford an exotic vehicle every week, but this is a separate discussion.

A Honda Civic Si is 30k now, and makes no more power than a 2006 which sold for 20k. Median income in that time did not raise 50% unfortunately. And for reference, SIs are about the same price as an EX. I don't think anyone would consider a Civic EX as a reckless splurge of purchase. But that's perception, because reality is 30k is alot of money relative to median income and factoring in cost of living. I get you, but again, separate discussion.

Point is, those who are willing to buy new vehicles, and there's alot of them out there, aren't buying wagons, and it's not because of cost, and up until now it was not because of lack of availability. People just did not want them. Just like manuals. And enthusiasts who wear Save The Manuals shirts tend to not have bought a new car in forever, probably don't even keep their cars for long.

TsukubaCody

Average is pulled up by vehicles that are out of touch for most americans. Median is the better measure. What I am saying is that there is no new wagon that is actually affordable for the majority of the American public.

An Outback is wider and longer than a CRV and just as tall. It is a large, tall vehicle. It is 9” taller than a Jetta wagon and 10” taller than a V60 wagon.

I broadly agree.

The 50% jump in price for a pretty normal vehicle, without the existence of a cheaper option below it (RIP fit/yaris/fiesta/etc) really makes new car ownership unattainable for an ever increasing number of Americans. It is expensive to be poor and ‘poor’ only seems to include more and more folks with these increasing costs.

TommyDeVito

It was the JSW. And VAG made the AllTrack and the JSW became the SportWagen. Even offering AWD and a 6MT in them. I don’t recall if it was in both or just one but I do remember AWD being offered and a manual. Few bought them. They do not make affordable wagons anymore because Americans don’t buy them. Instead they buy Crocs and CUV’s. For some reason Chad and Karen think the CUV looks like a SUV (It doesn’t, it looks like the worst vehicle I have ever seen in my life), and a Wagon looks like a Minivan. We are all stuck with their bad taste, bad decisions, etc. The majority majorly dictate what the minority can and cannot buy. It sucks.

TheDonEffect

At the risk of getting off topic, prices wouldn't keep continuing to rise if people didn't keep buying them, because they are. OEMs quickly figured out instead that most of the same people, and more, will buy a higher priced HRV over a lower priced Honda Fit.

Several powers at play here. Sensible people buy used as indicated by my earlier comments of enthusiasts, who are typically well informed consumers in this space if a bit irrational, not buying new. Then there's this recent phenomenon where people rather extend themselves and buy something aspirational/desirable/etc or not buy anything at all. Most of people I know who bought a Tesla Model 3 for instance said it was their first car. Speaking of used cars, the used practical car market is also inflated with the dawn of Shift/Carvana/etc, but more so the advent of the gig economy. These cars now have far more worth than just transportation, for many it's a profession, one that can pay more than the median income if a driver really applied themselves. So this is inflating the prices of used cars, pushing more people to new cars. Speaking of desirability earlier, I have heard from many of the young people (I am indeed old) that criticize cars for looking like an Uber. It's this trend that Toyota is trying to buck with releasing interesting cars and not just resting on their laurels by being reassured of sales.

Cars are also much more reliable, so sensible, responsible folks are just keeping their cars longer. One of my buddies keeps getting gifted cars by his older family members who can't drive anymore. Heck my wife would still be driving her TC if it were a bigger car.

The market is changing and evolving, but one thing we know for sure now more than ever, people who buy new cars tend to buy based on what others thing of it. A Toyota Highlander is a slightly lifted Sienna with less usable back doors, lol.

sam_spider

Nope, the figure posted excludes luxury vehicles.

Subaru raised the height of the outback somewhat recently, it still isn’t a huge tall vehicle. Compared to your Fit, yes it’s bigger but so are most cars. It’s 6” taller than your Fit, that’s not much.

TsukubaCody

Wagons and hatchbacks are common in some places, but the suburbs are the natural home of the CUV.

If it includes F150, F250, etc., it includes luxury vehicles.

I’m comparing it to my tall station wagon, which it is 6” taller than.

JonBoy

My buddy has an Outback and it's nearly as big as our Odyssey, in profile (the Odyssey is a mere 4.5" taller but 12" longer). With tons of ground clearance, it really does stand tall as a wagon.

That said, it's been pretty unreliable and I'm pretty sure I'll never buy a Subaru, based on his experience.

sam_spider

Yep, similar to what Audi have done with their Allroad and now Merc with their E wagon, they're still wagons though.

TsukubaCody

Longer, taller, and wider than a CRV.

It is not a wagon.

It is 8” taller than an A6 Allroad or an E class wagon.

sam_spider

Lol, ok Cody.


IIHS disagrees - https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...oor-wagon/2023