Union will be the death of US auto industry
02-17-2009, 09:16 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Slamnasty,Feb 17 2009, 04:00 PM
F'in A how many times do we have to go over this subject before people actually LEARN about what is ACTUALLY going on?
These people are NOT making $69 dollars a damn hour. It's a theoretical statistic that makes all kinds of assumptions. I did the calculations on this two months ago, the last time someone got on here and bitched about all the money every single UAW worker supposedly takes home (but in reality does not). The figures the industry cites are wildly impossible to sustain, and are not the real picture. The actual per hour salary is more around $30 (at the highest, no less), and in a few cases Japanese-owned plants in the US pay workers slightly more.
The figures GM cites are entirely unworkable. Go to UAW's website and see how many people they employ, then multiply that number by $69 dollars an hour. It's bullshit. Look up the thread from mid-December called "UAW is continuing their mission, to kill the american auto industry". I posted https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=655594&st=150)]several examples[/URL] why GM's figures are hogwash. And BTW, the number of UAW workers at the Big 3 is *going down*, yet they are still claiming the same problem and the same figures. And this is on top of the fact that they are not asking for the levels of money required to clear the kinds of quarterly losses they are telling us they would feasibly be sustaining under the $69/hr figure. Some red flags should be going up. And this is in addition to the concessions the UAW has and is still making. GM acts like the UAW has given up nothing, and that is flatly not true.
These people are NOT making $69 dollars a damn hour. It's a theoretical statistic that makes all kinds of assumptions. I did the calculations on this two months ago, the last time someone got on here and bitched about all the money every single UAW worker supposedly takes home (but in reality does not). The figures the industry cites are wildly impossible to sustain, and are not the real picture. The actual per hour salary is more around $30 (at the highest, no less), and in a few cases Japanese-owned plants in the US pay workers slightly more.
The figures GM cites are entirely unworkable. Go to UAW's website and see how many people they employ, then multiply that number by $69 dollars an hour. It's bullshit. Look up the thread from mid-December called "UAW is continuing their mission, to kill the american auto industry". I posted https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=655594&st=150)]several examples[/URL] why GM's figures are hogwash. And BTW, the number of UAW workers at the Big 3 is *going down*, yet they are still claiming the same problem and the same figures. And this is on top of the fact that they are not asking for the levels of money required to clear the kinds of quarterly losses they are telling us they would feasibly be sustaining under the $69/hr figure. Some red flags should be going up. And this is in addition to the concessions the UAW has and is still making. GM acts like the UAW has given up nothing, and that is flatly not true.
02-17-2009, 09:56 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Slamnasty,Feb 17 2009, 04:00 PM
F'in A how many times do we have to go over this subject before people actually LEARN about what is ACTUALLY going on?
These people are NOT making $69 dollars a damn hour. It's a theoretical statistic that makes all kinds of assumptions. I did the calculations on this two months ago, the last time someone got on here and bitched about all the money every single UAW worker supposedly takes home (but in reality does not). The figures the industry cites are wildly impossible to sustain, and are not the real picture. The actual per hour salary is more around $30 (at the highest, no less), and in a few cases Japanese-owned plants in the US pay workers slightly more.
The figures GM cites are entirely unworkable. Go to UAW's website and see how many people they employ, then multiply that number by $69 dollars an hour. It's bullshit. Look up the thread from mid-December called "UAW is continuing their mission, to kill the american auto industry". I posted https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=655594&st=150)]several examples[/URL] why GM's figures are hogwash. And BTW, the number of UAW workers at the Big 3 is *going down*, yet they are still claiming the same problem and the same figures. And this is on top of the fact that they are not asking for the levels of money required to clear the kinds of quarterly losses they are telling us they would feasibly be sustaining under the $69/hr figure. Some red flags should be going up. And this is in addition to the concessions the UAW has and is still making. GM acts like the UAW has given up nothing, and that is flatly not true.
These people are NOT making $69 dollars a damn hour. It's a theoretical statistic that makes all kinds of assumptions. I did the calculations on this two months ago, the last time someone got on here and bitched about all the money every single UAW worker supposedly takes home (but in reality does not). The figures the industry cites are wildly impossible to sustain, and are not the real picture. The actual per hour salary is more around $30 (at the highest, no less), and in a few cases Japanese-owned plants in the US pay workers slightly more.
The figures GM cites are entirely unworkable. Go to UAW's website and see how many people they employ, then multiply that number by $69 dollars an hour. It's bullshit. Look up the thread from mid-December called "UAW is continuing their mission, to kill the american auto industry". I posted https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=655594&st=150)]several examples[/URL] why GM's figures are hogwash. And BTW, the number of UAW workers at the Big 3 is *going down*, yet they are still claiming the same problem and the same figures. And this is on top of the fact that they are not asking for the levels of money required to clear the kinds of quarterly losses they are telling us they would feasibly be sustaining under the $69/hr figure. Some red flags should be going up. And this is in addition to the concessions the UAW has and is still making. GM acts like the UAW has given up nothing, and that is flatly not true.
$69 does seem to be a bit high but I have yet to see a different figure.
I am open to a different trust worthy source (UAW doesn't count). Enlighten me.
02-18-2009, 09:01 AM
#35
Registered User
it really doesnt matter what the hourly figure is.
bottom line, the UAW workers get paid above market(what they are worth). GM can not compete with honda and toyota's market wages and the disadvantage has eaten away enough at GM to cause it to go down.
basically the domestics made a lot of money when cars were first introduced to the mainstream. during this time they built up their treasuries and with this cash also put out a tentacle into the political arena.
over the past 10+ years the domestics have had negative operating revenue, and only survive because of their exorbitant treasuries. now, they are getting bailouts because the govt owes them and their treasuries are depleted.
bottom line, the UAW workers get paid above market(what they are worth). GM can not compete with honda and toyota's market wages and the disadvantage has eaten away enough at GM to cause it to go down.
basically the domestics made a lot of money when cars were first introduced to the mainstream. during this time they built up their treasuries and with this cash also put out a tentacle into the political arena.
over the past 10+ years the domestics have had negative operating revenue, and only survive because of their exorbitant treasuries. now, they are getting bailouts because the govt owes them and their treasuries are depleted.
02-18-2009, 02:12 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by trainwreck,Feb 18 2009, 10:01 AM
...GM can not compete with honda and toyota's market wages and the disadvantage has eaten away enough at GM to cause it to go down...
02-18-2009, 02:54 PM
#37
Hey Slamnasty,
thanks for the link, looks like as far as straight wage goes, they're making about 60K a year which is considerably more reasonable than the article in the op suggests, but still a lot of dough for someone living in the midwest. But that is almost half the cost of the quoted amount, so what kind of benefits contribute to that amount? Pensioned companies are dying and most are doing 401K with some matching, so even with a 7% match and paid full benefits, it doesn't account for a 30/hr to a 60+/hr jump. So either op article is over inflating or the uaw is underreporting (which is also feasible). Care to elaborate (again, not trying to be argumentative, just want to tap into your knowledge bank to get a better perspective).
thanks for the link, looks like as far as straight wage goes, they're making about 60K a year which is considerably more reasonable than the article in the op suggests, but still a lot of dough for someone living in the midwest. But that is almost half the cost of the quoted amount, so what kind of benefits contribute to that amount? Pensioned companies are dying and most are doing 401K with some matching, so even with a 7% match and paid full benefits, it doesn't account for a 30/hr to a 60+/hr jump. So either op article is over inflating or the uaw is underreporting (which is also feasible). Care to elaborate (again, not trying to be argumentative, just want to tap into your knowledge bank to get a better perspective).
02-18-2009, 03:57 PM
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Can we please stop comparing the US auto companies who have to pay health care benefits to countries with nationalized health care. That alone would bail out the big 3, plus a few hundred million other Americans.
02-18-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. WOT,Feb 19 2009, 12:57 AM
Can we please stop comparing the US auto companies who have to pay health care benefits to countries with nationalized health care. That alone would bail out the big 3, plus a few hundred million other Americans.
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