CKit

I hope that the government puts pressure on UAW to get a clue.

I'm not sure that the government was "protecting" the UAW as much as getting them invested enough that the realize that it's not UAW vs. auto makers. By giving them a big stake in the success of the future of those companies, hopefully they're making them work towards viability rather than short-term greed.

These are just my opinions and do not reflect in-depth research of the situation at hand.

Penforhire

I knew Ford would be put in this position later, while GM managed to discharge more union obligations. Good thing I took my gains on F stock a little while ago...

Saki GT

Fat chance - Obama needs the UAW vote more than Ford, or GM or Chrysler. In the end its his political career vs your tax dollars, and his personal interest is elsewhere. The government gave the UAW ownership stakes in GM and Chrysler, and the first thing the UAW said it would do was sell off its shares as soon as possible. How's that for supporting your employer?

offroad2000

There shouldn't be laws in place that force the unions on the companies. If the UAW doesn't like it then Ford should move to a right to work state.

rockville

Legally I think they can. However, they have so much money invested in other plants that they practically can't. Also, they have more factories than they need so it's unlikely they will put $1B+ into a new plant any time soon.

However, I don't think Michigan realizes just how much the pro-union reputation hurts them. I was talking to a colleague who used to do stuff with a Detroit area chamber of commerce. He said that the percent of union workers out side of the Big 3 plants is about average for any state. It's just that Michigan has so many big 3 plants that the total union labor rates in the state look higher than they are for non-car companies.

Still, perception is part of what keeps foreign companies from investing in Michigan. One of the things the state could do to really help bring money back in (and stop the brain drain) would be to pass a number of laws that make it harder for unions to organize thus making the state look more attractive for outside companies. I do think GM and Ford will recover some but never to the point they once were (or at least not any time in the next few decades).

NuncoStr8

unions build our bridges and office buildings. They string wires between communities and businesses. Union workers do pretty much all the basic infrastructure in this nation. Kind of silly to contend unions are the sum of all evil.

Plenty of people argue that the management of the financial industry caused so much pain and ruin, maybe we should get rid of all white collar jobs, or perhaps the benefits that go with them? Or perhaps make "the government" dictate how much people can get paid?

Seriously people. The UAW make themselves a good target at times, but just a tiny amount of thought goes a long way. Ckit's post was a good example of this. The knee-jerk anti-union posts just seem like so much mindless parrotting of each other with no intelligent content.

wickerbill

And non union workers could do the same work. Being union doesn't make them better or more skilled workers.

vader1

I don't think the general tone is anti union so much as it is anti UAW. While the top brass at the big three have been as laughably bad as any executives in any industry for making downright boneheaded decisions, its not anyone elses fault the union fought for ridiculous work rules, high pay AND bloated benefits, and jobs banks, and dictates in contract which factories can close, and which have to be operated.

When the chickens came home to roost, and they are still roosting, the companies that gave these ridiculous concessions when times were good have to stand up and say, "they have to go or the company goes down in flames." And the union says, "oh well".

Detroit has lost more jobs than you can count, has homes selling for $6 grand, rapidly declining population, blight everywhere and the last few remaining people who have a job want to risk losing it. Even if the concessions cost them some take home, is anyone screaming for heavy industrial manufacturing workers here in america these days? Do they think UAW looks good on a resume?

Its not a question anymore of do they want to give up a few percent on their standard of living. Its a question of do they ever want to make even close to what they make, for what they do the rest of their lives? Do they want the company who is supposed to pay their pension to exist long enough to pay it or do they want a fraction from the federal government pension guarantee? And do they want to become a nomad and uproot their family and move in hopes that they can find work that will pay anywhere close to what they get now for tightening bolts?

I am all for workers uniting to get a fair shake against management,. I rather the $20 million dollar bonus that goes to an exec be split between the workers and the shareholders, but the UAW has gone so far beyond that they have become the poster boys for an unproductive, unresponsive, unreasonable, and unapologetic workforce and that happened two decades ago. Its time to wake up and smell the unemployment checks and foreclosure notices on the horizon.

Saki GT

Michigan is the only US state that is shrinking in gdp and population right? What else is there in Michigan besides a couple universities?

I think another thing is the fact that the "rust belt" North has old infrastructure, winters are harsh, transportation to more favorable areas of the country is just as cheap and easy. Why open a plant in the north when the South provides better climate, good transportation, lower taxes, and there's not huge union foce to boot?

I think Datsun was the first foreign maker to open a plant in the US, and it was non-Union AND in the South. The backlash against it was huge, picketing, demonstrations, and a huge push to get the union in.

Look at today and the new plants are largely in the South and are almost completely union free. Non union workers get paid about the same, similar benefits, just less graft. I'm sure the American car companies would have followed suit in a free market, but they've been hamstrung for years. Where there are auto workers and no union, there is no desire to have a union, and I think that shows just how necessary the union is - in other words, its not needed or wanted by the workers.

The UAW has so infested the American auto industry that its difficult to compete, and its not so much the wage issues as it is the work and pay restrictions that are out of date. Membership is in decline, and its fighting for survival, and continuing to disrupt a healthy market.

And I'm not talking about all unions, I'm talking about the UAW.

pgarratt

Just wait until the current administration tries to pass laws that will make it easier for any shop to go union.....