CBeyond

I may be wrong, but I think more normal people today know that Scion = Toyota, compared to 18 years ago when few normal people knew that Acura = Honda, Lexus = Toyota, and Infiniti = Nissan. It seems that way to me, but maybe it's just my perspective.

I always thought that the salesman would mention it at some point during the negotiation. The dumb parents who are buying Johnny his first car would ask "is it reliable?" and the Salesman would say "WELLL... it IS a Toyota!"

VTEC_Junkie

because better suspension components usually cost more money, and given the price of the scion, you already are getting a lot of car for the money. besides, if i'm not mistaken, scion has a trd supercharger kit option for that car which includes more agressive suspension components. also, just because the car is marketed towards kids doesn't mean that pulling lateral g's is a big priority for all of them. in fact, 0.81g is more or less respectable out of the box for a car of that price. for those that ARE more performance oriented, they'll probably opt for the SC option, if not then they can upgrade the suspension with aftermarket. but regardless, the main problem i see with the tc are their choice of tires. potenza re92's are some of the crappier tires you can find on a sports coupe. re92s come stock in the wrx and preludes. when i had my prelude, i changed those out after a few months with re730s that are less expensive than the re92s, yet the traction in both wet and dry are tremendously improved. i expect the same with the tc if one gets rid of those stock tires and replace them with performance tires. it won't make the tc a super handler, but it's an improvement in the right direction.

Slamnasty

You're attributing the death of the MR2 to the Elise??

The Elise just barely became available here. The MR2 has been out now for around 3-4 years. To me it seems obvious why Toyota is killing it: it (to me anyways) looks about as interesting as a Kia Rio. It's pretty bad when the older version looks better than the current model.

The engine is also another low point in power-for-money terms. Though the MR2 is surely capable, to me the Miata is the better buy all around, especially with the new turbo option.

The Elise had absolutely nothing to do with the MR2's demise. Toyota's product planning and marketing did.

Dolemike

The spyder only looked good to me with a full kit on it. I think they managed to get some nice hp/ tq numbers with the turbo kits for it. But who would want to work on that engine its squeezed into the back of the car. The MKII had soo much room to work with, it was like made to be tweaked and worked on with ease. The MKII looked and still looks better by a longshot, and its a design thats older than 10 years too. As bad as I hate to admit it, I would take a Miata over the MrS, turbod or not. Even the NA Miata performed as well as the MrS, but it had a trunk, something the MRS lacked.

Optikal

[QUOTE=BruteHareS2k,Jul 20 2004, 10:05 AM] Well they still have my loyalty no matter what they become

Diablo99V

Yup, the Scion xB is far more appealing than the Element. Honda should hire new designers for this market.
I like the xB and xA as a second car for when I will take a lot of stuff and friends in a trip to the beach and stuff. Get it dirty and dont worry about it, you know what I mean?
Hopefully the Element will be changed soon with a more friendly design and also a little smaller because I find it kind of bulky and big in the other hand the xB seems more like a little toy and appealing.

143hawaii

*cough cough* Colin Chapman. There are pros/cons of both types of suspensions. I'd take a good strut suspension over a mediocre wishbone suspension anyday. Despite the Spyder "only" has a strut suspension (Well the rear is actually not your typical macpherson setup, there are two trailing links. One more and it could be relabled with the buzz word everyone seems to enjoy -- multilink) it fairs well against other wishbone equipped cars. Take a look at national Solo II results and you'll see for yourself.

I'm guessing that in a couple years that car guys who don't mind getting dirty will start picking up cheap used Spyders knowing how much bang for the buck you get with a little elbow grease. But I doubt the Spyder will ever make it out as being the underdog in the majority of people's eyes. All the riceboys will continue to complain that it never came with a turbo stock.

HondaF4i

Now....toyota sucks

sfphinkterMC

great car may be on way....my source says definite

has a turbo V-8


price unknown