Suphawk

lukemc01

I actually enjoy the dealing for my cars. I don't like being lied to, so like everyone else, I went through the internet sales. When I bought a 2005 Accord, my coworker buddy was buying the same car (v6 leather). I told him to get some internet quotes and take them in. He declined. He got an Ok deal - $500 above invoice, about $2500 below MSRP (Of course he gave it right back with the Scotch Gard and Perma-Plate, etc.)

I chose to use the Internet Quote on Edmunds.com. I put in two or three zip codes (if you just put in your local, they'll only give you a quote from about a 10 mi radius.) A dealer in Oakland quoted me $500 below invoice. I called the local Livermore dealership to see if they'd match and they agreed. Ten minutes later, the internet manager for the Livermore dealership sent me a quote of $1000 below invoice. This actually was a dilemma for me - I had just agreed to $500 below to the salesperson! It worked out OK - I asked both the salesperson and the internet manager if it was possible to get the $1000 off and have them both share the sales credit (otherwise I would go with what I agreed to - $500 isn't worth breaking my word). But they were OK with it so it worked out. Their finance guy was a prick though - he actually pouted when I refused to get any extras. I don't know if I got the best deal, but I walked away happy. I respect the salesperson, who was courteous and staid late to have the car prepped and walk through all the features of the vehicle after I bought it.

So, back to the main topic of this post - in this case the dealers brought up invoice as the starting point of negotiation.

Zoran

It is even funnier that you don't walk into bakery to buy a loaf of bread for $3 and the salesman tries to pile up on top of it: $1 for putting the glaze on it that would keep it a couple of days longer, $1 for a warranty that it won't go stale in 2 days, 20% interest rate on the credit card you bought it with, $1 for a warranty that it doesn't have a cockroach in it, $1 for slicing it and another $1 for slicing it to your liking (extra thin or extra thick), $1 for a "service contract" that allows you to bring it back for toasting if the crust goes soft in the next 2 days, e.t.c.

You set the rules of the game that allowed you to scam thousads of dollars of hard earned money from hard working honest people, now you get all worked up when someone shows up who learned those same rules and plays the game well? Well booo hoooo.

Supply and demand my ass.

Supply and demand rules work ONLY when an INFORMED customer walks into a dealership (yes, the same one that's asking for invoice). Supply and demand price is really the best case scenario that the customer can hope to get. The dealer will NOT sell that M5 below MSRP, and will NOT sell the car below the supply and demand price.

However, when an uninformed customer walks in, supply and demand factors are thrown out the window and the scamming starts. Inflated price, inflated interest rates, inflated extended warranty prices, ridiculous prices for things nobody needs ($200 for "protecting" the seats, that a $5 can of Armorall does a better job off, or a $300 pin stripe that you can get done for $20), all kinds of dubious "warranties" ($200 for a tire "hazard warranty", that NEVER gets into effect) and "protections" (who needs rust protection in a city where never snows, Houston for example?), credit protections, upside-down insurance protections, and so on, and so forth...

So don't sell me that supply and demand crap. If you can, you WILL take from me thousands and thousands over the supply and demand price, and you WILL try all the tricks in the book to get there.

So you are allowed to play dirty, but you get all hurt and INSULTED (hahaha) when someone knows about your tricks?

Buying a car is one of the most frustrating experiences one can have (unless you don't care or don't know anything and just pay the dealer whatever he quotes you). I've bought several news cars for myself in the past 10 years, and I've helped MANY of my friends buy theirs. I consider myself an expert in buying a new car and getting a good deal. There is NOTHING enjoyable in the process, though. Well, maybe the bitter satisfaction of sticking it to the salesmen when he tries one of the usual tricks...

dcak

I'm going to say the thread starter probably won't respond anymore. You guys have all pounded your points down pretty solidly. It's pretty clear he'll get no pity from this board. And rightly so.

I only wish the internet was more informative back when I bought my first car from a dealer. I walked away, thinking I'd gotten a good price, with a big rubber dildo that read "King's Automall" shoved up my arse.

Penforhire

Funny, I've never purchased something at a dealership and felt I wasn't abused in some way. They are not like grocery stores so why would you compare a car to a loaf of bread?

Big ticket items are negotiated. Buy much real estate? If you didn't haggle you were a fool.

And plenty of business transactions take place on a cost-plus basis. You want to sell something to Uncle Sam? He'll want to know exactly how much profit you're making. Guess what? Car companies are the same. You try selling something to Delphi or Visteon without them knowing your costs. Good friggin' luck. By the way, I sell them $10 parts that resell for $80+ at your local dealer (yeah they've got cost of inventory but jeez!).

And when was the last time you dropped the word "holdback" at a dealership without the salesman looking at you as if that wasn't English coming out of your mouth? When was the last time you closed the deal without having to fend off a whole bunch of shady come-ons (2x marked up extended warranties, Scotchgard upholstery protection, window etching, preinstalled alarms, ...).

I'm not out to scalp the dealer but I want a fair deal as much as the next guy and I know the deck is stacked against me. You got yourself a big pair of balls to come onto a car enthusiast board and knock our pursuit of a fair deal!

lukemc01

Next topic for the thread starter:

"Why do people look at me funny when I tell them I club baby seals for sport?"

Dariusx

I am not sure where everyone has the impression that I was complaining and seeking pity. If you would read carefully what I wrote my points should be clear.

I enjoy my job and working with a quality manufacturer. And since I work in the fleet department, most of my customers are intelligent, educated and well informed which actually makes my work easier.

So I am not intimidated, fearful, or negative toward a knowledgeable buyer.

From some of the scathing and hateful responses, it is clear that many have had bad experiences with car dealers and I will concede that this reputation is largely well deserved as there has been a history in this industry of car people manipulating and gouging unsuspecting buyers.

But to be fair, you all must admit that times are different now and with the proliferation of more brands and the advent of the information age, many dealers have cleaned up thier acts and become more customer service oriented so those instances of abuse are much less likely and prevalent as they were years ago.

My point was the amount of OVERFOCUS on invioce and not that it shouldn't be a consideration or an reference point. Many buyers will set an arbitrary amount above invoice and make an offer based on that.

Well that is fine but what if there is an allowance of 1500 to dealer that is unpublished? Is that still a good deal? What if there is extreme demand for a certain model, say the new Ridgeline for instance, is MSRP a bad deal?

Wouldn't it be better to get a quote from three dealers asking for their most competitive price? That way you will know where the market is on a specific vehicle at a specific time.

Suphawk

Funny you mention the Ridgeline, I was until recently seriously considering purchasing a Ridgeline. But since they appear to be selling at MSRP or above I think I will look to Nissan Titan or Toyota Tundra. I am a Honda loyalist but come on I am not going to pay more than I need to for a quality vehicle when the other manufacturers have a better deal.

s2kpdx01

Dude...you seem like a reasonable human being. A lot of what I posted is tounge in cheek, but for you own good....get out while you still have your soul. It may be too late, but I'm pulling for you.

slicksilver

What on EARTH are you talking about? Who buys a "price"? People go to a dealer because they want to buy a car. This kind of mumbo-jumbo is why the average person despizes car salesmen.

Where I live, the Honda dealer adds a regional market adjustment to each of their cars. This means that every Accord they sell is marked up by $3500 over MSRP. In the spring, each S2000 on the lot has a $10,000 markup. How incredibly insulting is that?

If you want your customers to respect you, show a little respect yourself. Don't inflate your prices, and don't play games. It's a simple concept.