Zeniac

All I can say is thank God for the Internet, it has made such a difference for my vehicle buying experiences.

The last 3 vehicles we purchased were below invoice price, including the MY04 S2000. Through the internet I received quotes from 4 dealers and brought in the best quote to my local dealer. In each case I was turned down initially and thanked them politely for their time and left, leaving my telephone number and encouragement to call me if they changed their mind with emphasis that the price offered was firm.

In all three cases I had return calls within 24-48 hrs, with agreement on the price I offered. No haggling, no waiting around in the dealership for hours and hours while being tag-teamed, and no hard feelings. With the S, the sales manager started in on how exclusive the S2000 was, and that they sell them as quickly as they come in. I replied that the choice is theirs to make and if they weren't interested I would go to an upstate dealer to make the purchase with no hard feelings...

Two days later I had a call from the sales manager asking when I would like to come in and pick the car up.

Invoice price is nothing more than a guideline, just as MSRP is. It really depends on how long the car has been inventoried, current promotions and dealer incentives, etc. I have worked in business most of my life and as with purchasing any higher ticket item, taking the time to educate yourself on the item being purchased, and knowing before you walk into the store what you are prepared to pay takes control of the entire experience out of the hands of the dealer and into yours, making it an enjoyable experience with a tremendous amount of satisfaction instead of a harrowing nightmare with repercussions for years afterwards.

Mi do centavos.

pierceman

I actually prefer the buyers that know invoice, at least they know when they offer 2000.00 under, that they are being silly or just testing the waters. My problem is the guy that does no research. I agree, thank god for the interntet, however what is funny, is all this info is on the net, and people either do not believe the numbers (as if the internet was owned by car dealers) and/or still make silly offers knowing the invoice.

New cars is all volume, if your local dealer has not figured it out, find another dealer that has. An offer is at least a starting point, but be realistic, do your research, and do not take it personal when you offer 1500.00 under invoice on a 20,000 dollar car and the dealer says no.
MAtt

As far as rebates go, when was the last time honda offered cash back directly to a customer? What ever rebate you got when you bought your car, figure you are going to loose double when you go to sell it. are you really saving then?

speed_bump

I don't mind the car buying game but I must admit the last few vehicles I've bought have been over the phone or the internet but even then there was a little haggling involved. My coworkers will take me with them when they go car buying so I can haggle for them. When the sale man goes to talk to the manager they counter by talking to me. When the salesman does a TO to the manager they hand it off to me. Hell, I love beating up on the finance guys too.

Heck I negotiate on stereo equipment, TVs, appliances basically anything I can. If I bought my bread through a salesperson I would negotiate on it too.


Mark

iatacs19

I am sorry, but this is BS. All dealers make a profit when they sell any car. I bet margins are actually much higher on those new cars. Please stop saying that dealers don't make profit that is just ignorant and you are insulting the people at s2ki. We all know what happens when you don't make money, you shut down. So if a dealer is still in business... guess what? They are making money from selling you cars, new or old!

The nerve of these stealerships....

s2kpdx01

I think it is pretty well known that dealerships make most of their money off o used cars. Someone want to explain "holdback" ot me? I thought invoice pricing usually included some kind of holdback for the dealership anyway. This is an interesting read:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...62/article.html

It is long but worth the read.

dcak

I don't know for certain if the make much on new cars or not, but what you said here isn't neccessarily true. Selling a large number of items at small profit each is a perfectly reasonable way to make a LOT of money. Look at Walmart.

Another case. I used to work at GE Aircraft engines. The commercial jet engines they supplied to Boeing and Airbus were being sold at almost cost. But they made a f*ck-load on spare parts and engine services and were/are a VERY profitable business.

speed_bump

Actually dealers will sell some vehicles at a loss (including hold, back dealer rebates etc.) If a car has been on a lot long enough they'll lose money on it to get it off the lot and stop paying interest to the banks for the car sitting there. When I was in the game in the import market you couldn't pick and choose what you got model,color, option wise. But for instance Nissan in the mid '80s was trying to increase pick up sales so we talked to the factory guys and the more pickups we sold the more of the new Maximas we got. I can remember doing a deal where we lost 1500 on a truck to get it out of there and we lost money on virtually every truck we sold at the time because we knew we would make 3500-5500 on the Maximas we got. We drove all of the dealers in our area nuts because at this dealership we were only selling about 150 cars a month but 60-70 of them were Maximas. They couldn't get there hands on that many until they figured out that we sold a ton of trucks at a loss and Nissan loved us for putting out so many trucks.

Mark

Bernie Lomax

Holdback is usually 2% (of invoice, I think). The dealer is making that from the manufacturer regardless of what they sell the car for. That's why invoice does serve well as a benchmark, or a starting point in negotiations. Even if a car is sold at invoice, the dealer is still making the holdback.

xmatt

Yeah, blaming customers for the invoice obsession has it all backwards. There's hardly anybody buying a car who actually enjoys the silly negotiating process. In most businesses, a store sets a price for their product. Stores compete with their set prices and with their service and customers choose where they want to shop accordingly. Usually the prices settle at a point where the stores can't comfortably offer their products and services much lower, obviously influenced by the laws of supply and demand.

Car dealers however have realized that on such a high ticket item as a car, they can make more money on average by selling cars at an "unnaturally" high price to uninformed customers and sucking it up with the informed ones. I think now that internet research and such is getting more common, dealers are feeling the pinch of this tactic as customers are more informed on average. My hope is that, at some point, dealers will go back to a standard business model of setting prices at a reasonable level for EVERYONE who walks in.

s2kpdx01

Yeah, dealers have tons of ways to make money, service/support, holdback, incentives for moving high volume etc. This doesn't help the salesman make money, but I'm not sure why I should care? No one forced anyone to become a car salesman. If you don't like it or don't like being viewed as right above (in some cases below) the cockroach or don't like getting screwed by your "manager"...find a new job. There are all kinds of things a car salesman might be qualified for like prison guard or jizz mopper at the local adult video arcade.
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sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously shut up. You have decided to work in an industry renown for screwing the people it relies on: customers. Don't expect us to throw a pity party for you.