speed_bump

Carmax makes better profits than most dealers. After I sued Ford they gave me back my money on my car and told me to keep it. I took it to Carmax where they gave $14000 for a car that was immaculate inside and out. They put it on the lot for $19,900 so they had a $5900 markup. Just because a dealer has a no haggle policy doesn't mean they aren't making a good deal of money. CarMax pays good money as far as trade in goes but they sell them for good money as well.

Of course used cars used to be the best place to make money in the car business because nobody knows what you have in the car so they have no starting point like invoice.

Mark

StockSH

oh.. that gentleman should be me then..

buying a home or car for me is different from buying stuff from Walmart.

If I'm rich enough for M3,M5,M6(oh well maybe I could afford one of these but), I wouldn't care about paying above MSRP.

I just wanted to ask ppl here how _________sells at dealers.
so I could make my negotiation plan (my offer starts near invoice, dealer's offer starts from MSRP)

Ckcrigger

Deleted because it was too bitter and mean.

Scot

ya you would....... generally people with money have the money because they are fairly smart about it.

I don't think I will ever pay over MSRP for any vehicle...

It doesn't hurt to try to get the best deal. The dealer doesn't have to sell the car so there is no harm in trying.

stockae92

simple facts:

dealers want to separate as much money as possible from the buyers

buyers want the most bang for the their bucks

they have a conflict of interest and they will never agree. period.

they work together to make a deal cause they are forced to, not that they want to.

the invoice price is just a starting point, so that people "think" they are getting a good deal. at invoice price, at least they are getting a muich better deal than MSRP, that's for sure.

walmart doesn't open their stores with the mindset of "i am going to rip you off big time", people at least think they are getting a fair price.

demand and supply definitely adds comlexity to the equation, and i agree. if the other guy wants the car more than you do and he can pay more, its only natural that the dealer wants to sell him the car instead (for as much money as possible). i don't mind. if i don't have the money, i just have to suck it up and drive a camry instead. lol (which is a nice car btw )

RiceBurnerTX

Well said! I think all to often people think that others get rich by some miracle, but there is no secret to becoming rich, a large part of it is understanding the value of money, which is also the reason many people are "poor" with decent jobs. There's a reason there is an "S" in MSRP, because even the manufacturer knows that it's almost impossible for dealers to charge that price unless they happen across a SUCKER. And they look for those suckers as much as possible, which is why rather then changing their business model to be no-haggle as CarMax has done, they will continue taking as large of a profit margin as possible, which is the same reason that consumers should try and bargain for their goods as much as possible. I'm faulting neither the consumer nor dealer, just pointing out that in this business model, haggling is expected and only the dealer is protected from being ripped off in such a model, which is why the consumer is the one that needs to fight for a fair market price.

As far as being insulting to negotiate for product, only an uneducated consumer would think such a thing. Even in markets where prices are fixed, negotiation takes place between retailers and vendors. Because of these negotiations, retailers such as Walmart are able to get their bottom line lower then other retailers, thus passing on a "negotiated" price to us (the consumer). In markets where the consumer is expected to do the negotiating, this is just a fact of doing business in that segment. Why it would be insulting in businesses that this is an accepted practice seems rather ridiculous to me.

Just my $.02 though.....flame suit on

steve c

For every one person who demands invoice I bet there is a sleazy dealer taking an old lady for 3000 more than MSRP.

Car sales is the bottom of the barrel in terms of honesty. Don't like dealing with customers who demand a good deal? Quit your job.

lukemc01

All I can say about this is, "It can't hurt to ask..."

Seriously, I went to a lot of dealers when buying my car. Several said no. One said yes to my demands. Heres the interesting part - none of the dealers that said no brought out goons and threw me out of the dealership. They just turned me down. And I didn't throw a tantrum when they wouldn't accept my offer (maybe I should have...). I left. And although I think that selling cars is probably not the easiest job, I doubt you're going to find too much sympathy here. IMOF, that buzzing noises you here in the computer speakers is me playing my microscopic violin for you!

CBeyond

Hah The last two posts from steve c and lukemc01 are perfect. Maybe we can have a violin duet.

The original post in this thread really makes no sense to me. Dariusx has "no problem with a consumer seeking the best possible value for their dollar" but he doesn't want them to use the invoice price as a benchmark. What's wrong with that? What other measurement should we use? Are we supposed to just dream up some abstract dollar figure we're willing to pay, and throw that out there? Obviously as an educated buyer you need to do some research and use some standardized number as a starting point for negotiations.

I'm not really sure what Dariusx is proposing.

Dariusx

[As far as being insulting to negotiate for product, only an uneducated consumer would think such a thing]

I did not suggest that it was insulting to negotiate, but rather the notion of a customer presuming to know how much a dealer needs to make. The implication is that they know the dealers business costs and overhead enough to make that determination. That, I find somewhat insulting.

I have no problem with fair, reasonable and civil negotiating