So is mugen...
11-10-2006, 11:43 AM
#1
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So is mugen...
going to become what AMG is to Mercedes for Honda?
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...24/TOC01ARCHIVE
Wonder what this means for other model lines? It would be pretty cool if they can make special versions for a decent price. The SI doesn't seem to interesting to me, but iit will be to enough people.
AMG makes very powerful machines that handle better then the models they are developed on, but this mugen SI seems to have some handling and cosmetic work for another 45% of the cost of the original car. That seems very excessive. Will mugen make a car that is much faster, handles better, and looks cooler for 30-40% more or should we expect more of this?
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...24/TOC01ARCHIVE
"We know this (Mugen) will sell," Mendel (honda senior vp) said. "It will be assembled and have a warranty by Honda, similar to the high-performance AMG vehicles by Mercedes. The Mugen Si sedan elevates the already impressive Si sedan into new performance territory."
AMG makes very powerful machines that handle better then the models they are developed on, but this mugen SI seems to have some handling and cosmetic work for another 45% of the cost of the original car. That seems very excessive. Will mugen make a car that is much faster, handles better, and looks cooler for 30-40% more or should we expect more of this?
11-10-2006, 05:44 PM
#5
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Doesn't sound like an AMG-style commitment to me, but more of a fairly firm nod to produce 500 one-offs for a limited period. This is not really that different than Honda releasing the Integra Type-R in limited numbers. If Mugen were to be Honda's performance arm, they need to start by applying it to Acuras, not Hondas. Additionally, the Mugen cars must bring with them significant horsepower increases and more sporting configurations (such as supercharged engines with manual or DSG-style trannies with LSDs and more) that set them apart definitively over the regular Type-S cars.
Will Honda do this? I honestly don't see it happening unless Honda changes Acura's whole game, which would mean taking the plunge and going head-to-head against Lexus and Infiniti first, AND THEN creating a performance brand within the company.
And this is all assuming the Acura entire line moved to RWD or AWD. And this is also assuming Honda did all this with Acura. Personally I do not see how their performance brand will sell well if the Mugen name marks up cars that are in the financial zone of buyers who probably would not be able to afford them. If you take a $22k Civic SI and add $6k of Mugen-ness to it, who's to say someone in the market for a $22k car (before taxes) will be able to afford a car that is now $28k (before taxes? At that price level you're into other nicer cars that people will likely have more of an interest in buying over a modded Civic sedan.
Tall order if you ask me.
Will Honda do this? I honestly don't see it happening unless Honda changes Acura's whole game, which would mean taking the plunge and going head-to-head against Lexus and Infiniti first, AND THEN creating a performance brand within the company.
And this is all assuming the Acura entire line moved to RWD or AWD. And this is also assuming Honda did all this with Acura. Personally I do not see how their performance brand will sell well if the Mugen name marks up cars that are in the financial zone of buyers who probably would not be able to afford them. If you take a $22k Civic SI and add $6k of Mugen-ness to it, who's to say someone in the market for a $22k car (before taxes) will be able to afford a car that is now $28k (before taxes? At that price level you're into other nicer cars that people will likely have more of an interest in buying over a modded Civic sedan.
Tall order if you ask me.
11-10-2006, 10:35 PM
#6
Mugen will never have a reputation like AMG to the non-enthusiast public. People who buy Mercedes' are already paying $ in the executive sedan area. They have the prestige and clientele to have AMG build such pricey cars and still sell.
Honda is supposed to be the place for people to buy cheap/mid-ranged cars. I doubt there will be a large group of Mugen devotees. If the S2000 came in a Mugen model with say a $7k add-on, I think I would have to pass. One, I can't afford it. Two, even if I could, for $43k, I'd go with a 330ci convertible.
Honda is supposed to be the place for people to buy cheap/mid-ranged cars. I doubt there will be a large group of Mugen devotees. If the S2000 came in a Mugen model with say a $7k add-on, I think I would have to pass. One, I can't afford it. Two, even if I could, for $43k, I'd go with a 330ci convertible.
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11-11-2006, 03:33 PM
#8
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Mugen's entry into Honda is similar to what Mazdaspeed did with their Mazda Protege a few years back or AMG did with the Mercedes C-class over a decade ago.
No, much to my disappointment and others, they're not making a big splash the way BMW did with their M1.
I think if Mugen succeeds in selling their 500 units of the anemic Civic Si, they will step up with other versions in the Honda/Acura line-up. This also depends on what Honda/Acura North America wants as well.
In the past, such a move would go against Mugen and Honda's philosophy as they wanted to keep the two companies separate, but close. Mugen being founded by Soichiro Honda's son, Hirotoshi Honda, they wanted to avoid the aire of nepotism. Since Mugen was embroiled in a scandal 2-3 years ago (with Hirotoshi jailed) and bought up by M-Tec, a change of heart was in order.
Mugen is more than capable of churning out high-hp mods. Many of their concept cars include: a Mugen Legend (Acura RL) powered by their detuned 590-hp naturally-aspirated V8 engine used for the Dome LMP racers in Europe or the Mugen Civic Dominator powered by a 300-hp supercharged K20 engine. The have built turbochargers in the past for the Mugen CRX of the 80's. Perhaps with this new partnership, these concepts can become reality.
No, much to my disappointment and others, they're not making a big splash the way BMW did with their M1.
I think if Mugen succeeds in selling their 500 units of the anemic Civic Si, they will step up with other versions in the Honda/Acura line-up. This also depends on what Honda/Acura North America wants as well.
In the past, such a move would go against Mugen and Honda's philosophy as they wanted to keep the two companies separate, but close. Mugen being founded by Soichiro Honda's son, Hirotoshi Honda, they wanted to avoid the aire of nepotism. Since Mugen was embroiled in a scandal 2-3 years ago (with Hirotoshi jailed) and bought up by M-Tec, a change of heart was in order.
Mugen is more than capable of churning out high-hp mods. Many of their concept cars include: a Mugen Legend (Acura RL) powered by their detuned 590-hp naturally-aspirated V8 engine used for the Dome LMP racers in Europe or the Mugen Civic Dominator powered by a 300-hp supercharged K20 engine. The have built turbochargers in the past for the Mugen CRX of the 80's. Perhaps with this new partnership, these concepts can become reality.
