Si still wins IMO
09-27-2009, 05:12 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Si still wins IMO
So I went testing a some cars yesterday including the much loved 2010 MS3 and followed that test with a test of an Si.
On paper you'd think that this should not be even close.
The Mazda has a great shifter (uh.. not comparing to S2k -simply the greatest snickity gear box ever) and gobs of power and incredible handling and steering feel. It has quite a bit of torque steer but easily managable. I liked the feel of the car.
So now I go to test the Si just to prove that Honda is falling behind the competition. Wrong. Speed isn't everything. There is just something about the entire experience that is better than anything in its price range IMO.
Maybe I am just a Honda fan but the slow ride to 8k is worth every penny.
I also drove the auto Accord coupe with the 6 cylinder engine. Very nice but heavy and not as exciting as the Si but a great sedan for the family.
On paper you'd think that this should not be even close.
The Mazda has a great shifter (uh.. not comparing to S2k -simply the greatest snickity gear box ever) and gobs of power and incredible handling and steering feel. It has quite a bit of torque steer but easily managable. I liked the feel of the car.
So now I go to test the Si just to prove that Honda is falling behind the competition. Wrong. Speed isn't everything. There is just something about the entire experience that is better than anything in its price range IMO.
Maybe I am just a Honda fan but the slow ride to 8k is worth every penny.
I also drove the auto Accord coupe with the 6 cylinder engine. Very nice but heavy and not as exciting as the Si but a great sedan for the family.
09-27-2009, 05:38 AM
#2
In a way, it's no surprise that you prefer the Si over the MS3. After all, you prefer the S2000 over a lot of other cars and it has a similar powerband in the motor.
The Si is a great little car and its only real fault is the lack of power. It's just not powerful enough compared to the competition any more. The brakes are a bit wimpy as well but other than that, it's really a great, fun car to drive.
I can't say I wouldn't choose the MS3 first, mainly because it only gives up some potential quality/reliability to the Si, but the Si is definitely not an obvious loser or winner in my mind.
The Si is a great little car and its only real fault is the lack of power. It's just not powerful enough compared to the competition any more. The brakes are a bit wimpy as well but other than that, it's really a great, fun car to drive.
I can't say I wouldn't choose the MS3 first, mainly because it only gives up some potential quality/reliability to the Si, but the Si is definitely not an obvious loser or winner in my mind.
09-27-2009, 06:48 AM
#3
Can't comment on MS3, since I have never driven one.
However, the Si... Well, it understeers (expected), also has torque steer (unexpected), and uncommunicative steering. Keep in mind this is from my limited exposure to my friend's Si on a short drive of 15 minutes.
Understeer: It is a FWD with the engine hanging in front of the axle. When you push the Si into a corner, you can feel the weight still wanting to go straight. Maybe it doesn't understeer that much, but my standards are high after having the S for 3 years.
Torque Steer: Totally unexpected. There is torque steer in 1st and 2nd gear under WOT. I am surprised to see this given the (relatively) low torque of K20. Maybe suspension geometry could use some more work?
Uncommunicative steering: The Si's steering feel is non-existent. It feels just like the ones in Accords & other Civics. Yes, Si has electric power steering; so does S2K. How did Honda mess this up? The Fit has better steering feel than the Si, and Fit has electric power steering as well.
Yes, I am comparing the Si to the S2K. It is unfair, but I don't think I'll ever be happy with an Si. Maybe my taste has shifted me from FWD cars to RWD & AWD ones. I think that's another reason why I haven't test driven a MS3 yet.
However, the Si... Well, it understeers (expected), also has torque steer (unexpected), and uncommunicative steering. Keep in mind this is from my limited exposure to my friend's Si on a short drive of 15 minutes.
Understeer: It is a FWD with the engine hanging in front of the axle. When you push the Si into a corner, you can feel the weight still wanting to go straight. Maybe it doesn't understeer that much, but my standards are high after having the S for 3 years.
Torque Steer: Totally unexpected. There is torque steer in 1st and 2nd gear under WOT. I am surprised to see this given the (relatively) low torque of K20. Maybe suspension geometry could use some more work?
Uncommunicative steering: The Si's steering feel is non-existent. It feels just like the ones in Accords & other Civics. Yes, Si has electric power steering; so does S2K. How did Honda mess this up? The Fit has better steering feel than the Si, and Fit has electric power steering as well.
Yes, I am comparing the Si to the S2K. It is unfair, but I don't think I'll ever be happy with an Si. Maybe my taste has shifted me from FWD cars to RWD & AWD ones. I think that's another reason why I haven't test driven a MS3 yet.
09-27-2009, 12:46 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mile High City
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love my FA5 Si.
Had it now for about 5 months and love everything about it. As a DD, it's very comfortable, pretty agile, the stock sound system is great. I get good mpg with it as well (about 35 highway).
Its handling is somewhat uncommunicative at lower speeds, but at higher speeds it tightens up. This is coming from a guy who's owned an Evo for 3+ years.
The gear box is very direct and snickety much like the S2k. If I could say the S2k's gearbox is 10/10 then I would put the Si at 8.5/10
Power is very linear and the low-end torque is not that bad considering you only get like 140ft/lbs.
There are plenty of remedies for the anemic power that some people gripe about. Hondata has a reflash as well as flashpro out for the motor, as well as Cobb AP. A lot of guys at the 8th civic website are putting down a little more than 200whp with i/h/e and around 215whp with the reflash added.
Adding a thicker rear sway bar will help with the understeer greatly as well. Some of the auto-x guys actually, upgrade the rear sway bar and 'downgrade' the front sway bar to a civic Lx/dx sway to promote even more oversteer.
just my .02
Had it now for about 5 months and love everything about it. As a DD, it's very comfortable, pretty agile, the stock sound system is great. I get good mpg with it as well (about 35 highway).
Its handling is somewhat uncommunicative at lower speeds, but at higher speeds it tightens up. This is coming from a guy who's owned an Evo for 3+ years.
The gear box is very direct and snickety much like the S2k. If I could say the S2k's gearbox is 10/10 then I would put the Si at 8.5/10
Power is very linear and the low-end torque is not that bad considering you only get like 140ft/lbs.
There are plenty of remedies for the anemic power that some people gripe about. Hondata has a reflash as well as flashpro out for the motor, as well as Cobb AP. A lot of guys at the 8th civic website are putting down a little more than 200whp with i/h/e and around 215whp with the reflash added.
Adding a thicker rear sway bar will help with the understeer greatly as well. Some of the auto-x guys actually, upgrade the rear sway bar and 'downgrade' the front sway bar to a civic Lx/dx sway to promote even more oversteer.
just my .02
09-27-2009, 02:24 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought my taffeta white Fa5 about a month ago and I like it, but I regret not buying a s2k. I couldn't believe that it had torque steer either (found out after break-in), the ms3 must be horrible in that department. Cash for clunkers was the incentive that ended up being the deciding factor for me. It's all good though, I'm only 17 so after college and shiz, when my civic is still running like a champ (hopefully) I'm gonna buy an 09 s2k and drop some F/I into it. The si will be my dd and the S will be the fun car 
09-27-2009, 02:25 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orlando
Posts: 6,536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've put thousands of miles on an 2007 Si coupe. I would definitely recommend it. But lets be real here. The car seriously fell behind. I hope Honda doesn't read this thread and give it the same ol' s2000 treatment. MORE POWER and MORE communication from the steering please. There is only so much you can do with FWD but clearly the car needs to keep up.
Sadly I would pick just about any car in its class over it (MS3, Cobalt SS, etc.) The only thing appealing about it is its more fun that a normal Civic. That doesn't take much work to do..lol
Sadly I would pick just about any car in its class over it (MS3, Cobalt SS, etc.) The only thing appealing about it is its more fun that a normal Civic. That doesn't take much work to do..lol
09-27-2009, 05:18 PM
#7
Great car, great experience, not very competitve. I'd buy it as a long term dd over all the fi competition, otherwise I'd get something else.
Trending Topics
09-27-2009, 06:38 PM
#9
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tarheel91,Sep 27 2009, 09:26 PM
From what I understand about torque steer, it's about effective torque, not the torque the engine makes. This is where gearing comes in, and since horsepower effectively shows you the combined potential from gearing and torque, horsepower is a much better indicator of torque steer than torque.
I've driven both, the ms3 more than the si and I'd take the ms3 without a doubt.
