View Poll Results: What to do?
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Sell AP2 for E90 M3?
06-04-2013, 11:12 PM
#11
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Thanks for the responses thus far, everyone. I truly appreciate it.
A few things I wanted to respond to...
* Having the S as a second car: the thing is, I never drove it. When I had my 2012 FX35, and before that, the 10MY Murano--I took those CUVs everywhere. Even the occasional "pleasure drive" was in those vehicles. If I really wanted to scoot quickly down the road? The Monster takes care of that. Can't beat that. As such... love the S, but just sits. If I snap up a new Fit Sport, Golf TDI (something along those lines), I know that's what's going to happen again. Having a depreciating asset just chilling there... I really don't understand the rich guys w/ their Ferrari garage queens.
* Maintenance: I hadn't touched this much in my original post, but I'm OK with the increased expenses. I've a close buddy who owns his own shop, so he will do the maintenance on the hypothetical M3. Most things I can still continue to do myself (oil, brake fluid, etc.)
* MPGs. Yeah, when Uncle Sam hits the original buyer w/ a gas guzzler tax... you know it's bad. I plan on taking the motorcycle to work more if this happens.
* I think Chris really understands my POV... yes, I'd agree that the M3 might be a little boring under 8/10ths, dynamically, but I won't be yelling at the engine to make more power as in a Fit or TDI. I REALLY like to have accessible power at all times. In the meantime, I'm coddled in a quiet cabin where my inner audiophile can shine again, or make phone calls.'
*NFR_AP2: I hear this a lot... had S, bought something else, sold that, bought another S. But why exactly did you unload the M3?
* P-cars: Love 'em. But, won't even bat an eye at them until at least 40. There are some things on my bucket list that just need to be saved for later.
* G/F's car: a rather tired Yaris sedan with nearly 100k on the clock. Kindvua sore subject.
* TheDonEffect: you're mostly right. Only thing is... I've always wanted a M3 ever since the E36 landed on U.S. shores. I even remember the Car & Driver cover... I think it was sometime in 1994 (for the 95MY E36 M3:--a yellow coupe going around a skidpad...
What was and is aspirational is the sportiness of it, combined with daily drivability. Regarding paying to play--yes. understood. Manning up to that now lol! M3 for Costco runs--yes. No lumber, just things like plants, flowers, mulch. I once carried 3 bags of mulch in the S. No qualms about it. I'll just do one of those WeatherTech trunk mats.
Re: midsize lux sedans--apart from an FJ or a FR-S, I absolutely refuse to own Toyota products, at least in their current state. G35/37... had the 03MY, and then again for 08MY with the body change. Good cars, but won't do them again. Sedan's rear seats don't fold either.
TL Type-S (like a 2007) really caught my eye, but boy, these cars are beat to high hell. Also, they lack a bit of character. I do hear you on the variety part: in my last decade, I've driven just about everything out there (exception being some Toyota/Lex products)--few cars impress me (under $75k). S2000 does. So does the M3. CTS-V Wagon with 6-speed does. But that's about it. It sounds strange, as I'm humbled by being so fortunate to have had a job that I did, but it's also now a cross I bear as a result of those years of learning.
Keep the feedback coming!!
A few things I wanted to respond to...
* Having the S as a second car: the thing is, I never drove it. When I had my 2012 FX35, and before that, the 10MY Murano--I took those CUVs everywhere. Even the occasional "pleasure drive" was in those vehicles. If I really wanted to scoot quickly down the road? The Monster takes care of that. Can't beat that. As such... love the S, but just sits. If I snap up a new Fit Sport, Golf TDI (something along those lines), I know that's what's going to happen again. Having a depreciating asset just chilling there... I really don't understand the rich guys w/ their Ferrari garage queens.
* Maintenance: I hadn't touched this much in my original post, but I'm OK with the increased expenses. I've a close buddy who owns his own shop, so he will do the maintenance on the hypothetical M3. Most things I can still continue to do myself (oil, brake fluid, etc.)
* MPGs. Yeah, when Uncle Sam hits the original buyer w/ a gas guzzler tax... you know it's bad. I plan on taking the motorcycle to work more if this happens.
* I think Chris really understands my POV... yes, I'd agree that the M3 might be a little boring under 8/10ths, dynamically, but I won't be yelling at the engine to make more power as in a Fit or TDI. I REALLY like to have accessible power at all times. In the meantime, I'm coddled in a quiet cabin where my inner audiophile can shine again, or make phone calls.'
*NFR_AP2: I hear this a lot... had S, bought something else, sold that, bought another S. But why exactly did you unload the M3?
* P-cars: Love 'em. But, won't even bat an eye at them until at least 40. There are some things on my bucket list that just need to be saved for later.
* G/F's car: a rather tired Yaris sedan with nearly 100k on the clock. Kindvua sore subject.
* TheDonEffect: you're mostly right. Only thing is... I've always wanted a M3 ever since the E36 landed on U.S. shores. I even remember the Car & Driver cover... I think it was sometime in 1994 (for the 95MY E36 M3:--a yellow coupe going around a skidpad...
What was and is aspirational is the sportiness of it, combined with daily drivability. Regarding paying to play--yes. understood. Manning up to that now lol! M3 for Costco runs--yes. No lumber, just things like plants, flowers, mulch. I once carried 3 bags of mulch in the S. No qualms about it. I'll just do one of those WeatherTech trunk mats.Re: midsize lux sedans--apart from an FJ or a FR-S, I absolutely refuse to own Toyota products, at least in their current state. G35/37... had the 03MY, and then again for 08MY with the body change. Good cars, but won't do them again. Sedan's rear seats don't fold either.
TL Type-S (like a 2007) really caught my eye, but boy, these cars are beat to high hell. Also, they lack a bit of character. I do hear you on the variety part: in my last decade, I've driven just about everything out there (exception being some Toyota/Lex products)--few cars impress me (under $75k). S2000 does. So does the M3. CTS-V Wagon with 6-speed does. But that's about it. It sounds strange, as I'm humbled by being so fortunate to have had a job that I did, but it's also now a cross I bear as a result of those years of learning.Keep the feedback coming!!
06-05-2013, 06:19 AM
#12
I owned an e46 prior to owning a '11 e350 cause I got tired of maintaining it and spend hundreds on oil changes and valve adjustments. I wanted something comfortable and with warranty. But that got old quick cause I really missed the rush on weekends or nice days. Hence the s2k and I got my 2013 crv for dd. Perfect combo and cheap to own. So I would just keep the s2 and get a inexpensive dd for home dept runs
E90 is sick tho, if u can live with those cons.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
E90 is sick tho, if u can live with those cons.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
06-05-2013, 07:29 AM
#13
If you didn't need to make Home Depot runs I'd suggest a 997/Boxster/Cayman as a better alternative given your details.
I have an E90 M3. It can play daily driver, but if you're not regularly going to drive it above 8/10ths there's really no point to it over a 335i. Like the S2000, at daily driving speeds the M3 is kind of lacking in character-- it's a little dull.
That's what Porsche is quite good at; they feel special even putting around town. Not as special as a Ferrari or whathaveyou, but you actually can daily a Porsche.
I have an E90 M3. It can play daily driver, but if you're not regularly going to drive it above 8/10ths there's really no point to it over a 335i. Like the S2000, at daily driving speeds the M3 is kind of lacking in character-- it's a little dull.
That's what Porsche is quite good at; they feel special even putting around town. Not as special as a Ferrari or whathaveyou, but you actually can daily a Porsche.
06-05-2013, 07:30 AM
#14
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Aren't oil changes on BMW's done like every 10,000 miles? So it basically offsets their expensive costs. The fact you never drove your S2k when you had another vehicle makes me think you don't love the car that much, otherwise you'd be driving the s2000 more than the DD, aha. The M3 is making even more sense after hearing that. You basically have a depreciating asset sitting in your garage, yes it's paid off, but you can sell it to make a bit of money back after buying an M3. The M3 is depreciated almost fully. I don't think they'll ever go into the low 30k range because e46's still sell for near 30k with low mileage.
06-05-2013, 08:16 AM
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Kove--it's not that I'm not fully sold on the M3--it's just a bigger mental step that I'm taking for the points I mentioned. From going from the mindset of "keeping the S indefinitely" to "oh hello M3!" it's a lot like ditching a spouse... "Oh hey, this new girl is more attractive, a little younger, house would be cleaner, dinner's bit yummier, after-dinner events are great... she's no spinner, but definitely still makes it up in pedigree..." and so forth.
Oil changes... At first look, yes, oil changes are expensive. But let's look at the math. With this last oil change, my S got new oil after 7000mi. Previous to that, it just got annual oil changes since it sat so much. S uses up 6 bottles; M3 swallows 9. Mobil 1 for the S is $9/qt at Autozone; this Castrol TWS 10W-60's about $13/qt from the cheapest place I found. Filter costs are similar. We're talking a $63 difference here. But if the M3 takes say, 10K per change, I'm looking at a 42% difference in miles, to the S's interval. $63 @ 42% is just a bit over $26. $26 difference in engine oil every 9 mo or so for me. I think I can handle that.
Cayman--would love it. I just want something to work towards in my 40s... If I snapped that up now, gee... what's next? 911 Turbo S? I want to pace myself... a little...
Ryan--I hear ya. I do love the S--it's only that my personal situation changed significantly to the point where the S doesn't really fit my current life very well. Long story short, I hadn't exactly planned on the divorce! That's the other thing too... this car was bought literally a couple of weeks after that wedding: kinda want to shed that stigma, bad memories, etc...
Oil changes... At first look, yes, oil changes are expensive. But let's look at the math. With this last oil change, my S got new oil after 7000mi. Previous to that, it just got annual oil changes since it sat so much. S uses up 6 bottles; M3 swallows 9. Mobil 1 for the S is $9/qt at Autozone; this Castrol TWS 10W-60's about $13/qt from the cheapest place I found. Filter costs are similar. We're talking a $63 difference here. But if the M3 takes say, 10K per change, I'm looking at a 42% difference in miles, to the S's interval. $63 @ 42% is just a bit over $26. $26 difference in engine oil every 9 mo or so for me. I think I can handle that.
Cayman--would love it. I just want something to work towards in my 40s... If I snapped that up now, gee... what's next? 911 Turbo S? I want to pace myself... a little...
Ryan--I hear ya. I do love the S--it's only that my personal situation changed significantly to the point where the S doesn't really fit my current life very well. Long story short, I hadn't exactly planned on the divorce! That's the other thing too... this car was bought literally a couple of weeks after that wedding: kinda want to shed that stigma, bad memories, etc...
06-05-2013, 09:25 AM
#16
Sounds like you're sold. Just get it.
IMO, the M3 sedan does so many things so well that it can be considered the "hub" of all sporty cars. It's by no means the "best" car for everyone, but it's so well-rounded that any car that improves on it in one aspect (obviously including cost) will sacrifice something else substantially.
For instance:
Want more torque? Go with a C63, give up some handling precision (and even MPG!).
Want AWD? Get an STi/Evo/Audi, deal with less comfort/refinement in the former two and "safer", uninvolving, understeer-y handling in the latter
Want even more practicality? Get an M5 or Panamera (or even a Tesla), lose some agility.
Want something lighter/more-agile? Get ready to sacrifice some significant combination of practicality (911/Cayman), comfort (S2000), refinement (Elise), and/or major additional cost (Ferrari).
IMO, the M3 sedan does so many things so well that it can be considered the "hub" of all sporty cars. It's by no means the "best" car for everyone, but it's so well-rounded that any car that improves on it in one aspect (obviously including cost) will sacrifice something else substantially.
For instance:
Want more torque? Go with a C63, give up some handling precision (and even MPG!).
Want AWD? Get an STi/Evo/Audi, deal with less comfort/refinement in the former two and "safer", uninvolving, understeer-y handling in the latter
Want even more practicality? Get an M5 or Panamera (or even a Tesla), lose some agility.
Want something lighter/more-agile? Get ready to sacrifice some significant combination of practicality (911/Cayman), comfort (S2000), refinement (Elise), and/or major additional cost (Ferrari).
06-05-2013, 10:47 AM
#17
Hmm, with your counterpoints it seems that you are in a position to correctly buy the car, and it seems like you like the car a lot more than your original post may have suggested. So with that, go for it, but you could also buy a used FX, etc the cars that you had before using my logic. It may cost a bit more now, but itll be worth it over the long haul. The M3 is flat out an expensive car to put miles on, and while the resale is good, it still depreciates expodentially as the miles start piling up. It does bottom out, but you have a long ways from your price to that bottom, whereas your S won't depreciate a whole lot more especially if it sits in a garage.
I get your point though, when I got my second car, my S just sat and sat, and I enjoyed my mundane DD more and more. Yeah it'd be nice to have the likes of an M3, something I could feel good about driving everyday, but what I learned is that to me even an M3 is second car. When I'm driving below 8/10s, wearing shorts and a tshirt, driving to the airport, going to the local sports venue, sitting in traffic, driving my pride and joy just gets more stressful. Which is why for me it always comes back to if I can truly afford it. The M3 is a car that can be used as a great DD because it is, doesn't mean you should.
It's all relative, but sounds like you made up your mind, go for it and don't look back, we can argue the merits of either direction all day, sometimes you just gotta decide to take a shit or get off the pot right? lol.
I get your point though, when I got my second car, my S just sat and sat, and I enjoyed my mundane DD more and more. Yeah it'd be nice to have the likes of an M3, something I could feel good about driving everyday, but what I learned is that to me even an M3 is second car. When I'm driving below 8/10s, wearing shorts and a tshirt, driving to the airport, going to the local sports venue, sitting in traffic, driving my pride and joy just gets more stressful. Which is why for me it always comes back to if I can truly afford it. The M3 is a car that can be used as a great DD because it is, doesn't mean you should.
It's all relative, but sounds like you made up your mind, go for it and don't look back, we can argue the merits of either direction all day, sometimes you just gotta decide to take a shit or get off the pot right? lol.
06-05-2013, 11:00 AM
#18
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If you aren't enjoying the S and can't do both the M3 & the S, the logical choice is to go with the M3. See if your buddy will let you take it for a day and see what you think.
06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
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Wish I could offer you practical advice but I'm also torn by this same decision lol. Except the divorce part and my 07 S has 85k on it. Have you considered leasing a nicer/sportier daily driver that's NOT an M3? I'm considering it so let me give you that perspective and see if it helps...
Right now I'm considering leasing (tell you why lease in a minute) a 335is so I can move towards something that should still be fun/sporty to drive every day AND keeping the S. I'm considering a lease because well... the S is paid off and if I end up not liking the 335is (or BMWs in general) I have an out without taking a depreciation hit and being upside down on the car. Since I would still own the S, if I ended up turning in the car I'd still have the primary transportation function covered. If during the lease period I figure out that I don't want to keep the S, I can always sell it and have the cash at my disposal to either use to pay for the lease or maybe keep and use for a downpayment towards an M3 (or maybe I'll be content with the 335is?). Either way, I'm very skeptical about getting rid of the S completely myself and as of now I'm still as undecided as you seem to be.
Right now I'm considering leasing (tell you why lease in a minute) a 335is so I can move towards something that should still be fun/sporty to drive every day AND keeping the S. I'm considering a lease because well... the S is paid off and if I end up not liking the 335is (or BMWs in general) I have an out without taking a depreciation hit and being upside down on the car. Since I would still own the S, if I ended up turning in the car I'd still have the primary transportation function covered. If during the lease period I figure out that I don't want to keep the S, I can always sell it and have the cash at my disposal to either use to pay for the lease or maybe keep and use for a downpayment towards an M3 (or maybe I'll be content with the 335is?). Either way, I'm very skeptical about getting rid of the S completely myself and as of now I'm still as undecided as you seem to be.
06-05-2013, 12:18 PM
#20
Good point - I attended a high-end car show last weekend w/ lots of Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos, Vettes, Rolls Royces, you name it - just about everything except Japanese cars (there was a single GT-R representing the land of the rising sun). While leaving and walking back to my M3, I realized that not a single car in the show could provide a similar balance of fun, practicality, and comfort.
Sounds like you're sold. Just get it.
IMO, the M3 sedan does so many things so well that it can be considered the "hub" of all sporty cars. It's by no means the "best" car for everyone, but it's so well-rounded that any car that improves on it in one aspect (obviously including cost) will sacrifice something else substantially.
For instance:
Want more torque? Go with a C63, give up some handling precision (and even MPG!).
Want AWD? Get an STi/Evo/Audi, deal with less comfort/refinement in the former two and "safer", uninvolving, understeer-y handling in the latter
Want even more practicality? Get an M5 or Panamera (or even a Tesla), lose some agility.
Want something lighter/more-agile? Get ready to sacrifice some significant combination of practicality (911/Cayman), comfort (S2000), refinement (Elise), and/or major additional cost (Ferrari).
IMO, the M3 sedan does so many things so well that it can be considered the "hub" of all sporty cars. It's by no means the "best" car for everyone, but it's so well-rounded that any car that improves on it in one aspect (obviously including cost) will sacrifice something else substantially.
For instance:
Want more torque? Go with a C63, give up some handling precision (and even MPG!).
Want AWD? Get an STi/Evo/Audi, deal with less comfort/refinement in the former two and "safer", uninvolving, understeer-y handling in the latter
Want even more practicality? Get an M5 or Panamera (or even a Tesla), lose some agility.
Want something lighter/more-agile? Get ready to sacrifice some significant combination of practicality (911/Cayman), comfort (S2000), refinement (Elise), and/or major additional cost (Ferrari).