LUV2REV

I think it was all the way up until the 458 came out, which wasn't that long ago. But its rather silly, because any one of us can easily uncork the S with typical bolt ons and up that hp per liter, surpassing what the old record was. Go FI and it just got ridiculous the power -to weight- per liter.
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Alas. The same can be said for many other automobile's with "bolt on" modifications. You are not going to gain much with bolt-on's with either the F20/22C, you know that. We are talking factory specification, normally aspirated vehicle's here. If you want to bring Forced Induction into the picture than that opens up a whole new world.
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The 458 produces 123.7 hp per liter, the F20 JDM spec produces 123.5. How much more NA bolt on power is needed? Hell at a meager 30 engine hp additional, which everyone who doesn’t even know what they are doing has achieved, and many have made moderately more. At an additional 30hp bolt on, it puts the F20 at roughly 140hp per liter NA. So it still cleans up by a good margin today, in a 13 year old design and in a car price point of 30k. Don’t cough at it.
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The F163FB in the 458 produces 570HP which equates to 127 BHP per litre.

So now we are adding bolt on's to the equation ? Was this not about factory specification automobile's ?

So you are saying you can easily get 40 additional HP out of the F20C with bolt on's ?

I can say with some guarantee that the F163FB is probably more receptive to bolt on's (namely exhaust/headers) than the F20C.

The 4.5L V8 also produces 398 lb/ft of torque which is quite amazing.

Don't forget the 3.8L/4.0L flat six in the GT3/RS produce 126/125 BHP per litre respectively.

No, it does not clean up by a large margin and it is what it is - a $30K (or sub $12K in todays world) Roadster that has more in common with a Miata than a 458 or GT3.

Jeremy Clarkson

even a LQ9 (6.0L cast iron block) is rated at 350hp and they're dirt cheap. Drop in a LSX block and 400-450 is easy.... and torque.... oh yeah! For $9K you can buy a brand new N/A LSX454 which is rated at 620hp.... and you'd actually get just as good, if not better MPG. The LSX motors are extremely effecient, most of my friends have LS1/LS2's and still get 28-29mpg with well over 400hp.
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Engine weight isn't as readily available as I thought it would be finding the block weight of a motor isn't so bad but looking for the weight of a motor that is ready to go is a little more difficult, from digging around in the forums I found that the Ap1 (f20) weighs 326lbs, the LSX454 weighs in at 568lbs, LS9 out of a Corvette weighs 528lbs, the LS1/2 weigh roughly 120lbs lighter than the 9 (in the 400lb range). I am sure if you purchased a block and had weight in mind you could trim pounds off either of weights but (and you could do the same with the S) the LSX and LS9 are close to double that of the S. Just something to consider.

LUV2REV

Honda had an engineering marvel in the F20C. It's amazing that they built a motor that can last 100K+ miles and rev to 9000 rpm for $33K (in 2000). It's not the pinnacle of automotive engineering, it's just quite amazing that they put that kind of engine in such an inexpensive car and didn't compromise on the design in doing so. The F20C is arguably inferior to the K20 if you build up the K20 appropriately but it has great flow characteristics, it's very strong (600 hp on stock internals) and it lasts a long time despite the incredible redline. That's something to be celebrated.
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helmincamaro

even a LQ9 (6.0L cast iron block) is rated at 350hp and they're dirt cheap. Drop in a LSX block and 400-450 is easy.... and torque.... oh yeah! For $9K you can buy a brand new N/A LSX454 which is rated at 620hp.... and you'd actually get just as good, if not better MPG. The LSX motors are extremely effecient, most of my friends have LS1/LS2's and still get 28-29mpg with well over 400hp.
[/quote]

Engine weight isn't as readily available as I thought it would be finding the block weight of a motor isn't so bad but looking for the weight of a motor that is ready to go is a little more difficult, from digging around in the forums I found that the Ap1 (f20) weighs 326lbs, the LSX454 weighs in at 568lbs, LS9 out of a Corvette weighs 528lbs, the LS1/2 weigh roughly 120lbs lighter than the 9 (in the 400lb range). I am sure if you purchased a block and had weight in mind you could trim pounds off either of weights but (and you could do the same with the S) the LSX and LS9 are close to double that of the S. Just something to consider.
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Most of the weight from the LS9 comes from the supercharger. The little bit of weight on the LS2/3 would be more than made up for in the torque department alone.

JonBoy

Honda had an engineering marvel in the F20C. It's amazing that they built a motor that can last 100K+ miles and rev to 9000 rpm for $33K (in 2000). It's not the pinnacle of automotive engineering, it's just quite amazing that they put that kind of engine in such an inexpensive car and didn't compromise on the design in doing so. The F20C is arguably inferior to the K20 if you build up the K20 appropriately but it has great flow characteristics, it's very strong (600 hp on stock internals) and it lasts a long time despite the incredible redline. That's something to be celebrated.
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You can't SAY anything, since you got owned for claiming Ferrari didn't care, so you do a little cheer instead and comment on a particular paragraph while ignoring all the moderating points I made to put that comment in context. Suits you!

s2000Junky

I think it was all the way up until the 458 came out, which wasn't that long ago. But its rather silly, because any one of us can easily uncork the S with typical bolt ons and up that hp per liter, surpassing what the old record was. Go FI and it just got ridiculous the power -to weight- per liter.
[/quote]

Alas. The same can be said for many other automobile's with "bolt on" modifications. You are not going to gain much with bolt-on's with either the F20/22C, you know that. We are talking factory specification, normally aspirated vehicle's here. If you want to bring Forced Induction into the picture than that opens up a whole new world.
[/quote]

Hell at a meager 30 engine hp additional, which everyone who doesn’t even know what they are doing has achieved, and many have made moderately more. At an additional 30hp bolt on, it puts the F20 at roughly 140hp per liter NA. [/quote]

So you are saying you can easily get 40 additional HP out of the F20C with bolt on's ?


[/quote]

Reading helps. I said 30 engine hp. Which is about 20-25whp. Easily done, no problem and cost about $2000 respectively.

My mistake on shorting the 5hp on the 458. How does the 458 take to aftermarket bolt ons? What is there that can be done to make improvements and what’s it cost? I don’t know. I'd assume a decat at least and possibly at the most. Guess we would have to look at the % gained through NA bolt ons between the two to see what engine design yields the most.

LUV2REV

I think it was all the way up until the 458 came out, which wasn't that long ago. But its rather silly, because any one of us can easily uncork the S with typical bolt ons and up that hp per liter, surpassing what the old record was. Go FI and it just got ridiculous the power -to weight- per liter.
[/quote]

Alas. The same can be said for many other automobile's with "bolt on" modifications. You are not going to gain much with bolt-on's with either the F20/22C, you know that. We are talking factory specification, normally aspirated vehicle's here. If you want to bring Forced Induction into the picture than that opens up a whole new world.
[/quote]

Hell at a meager 30 engine hp additional, which everyone who doesn’t even know what they are doing has achieved, and many have made moderately more. At an additional 30hp bolt on, it puts the F20 at roughly 140hp per liter NA. [/quote]

So you are saying you can easily get 40 additional HP out of the F20C with bolt on's ?


[/quote]

Reading helps. I said 30 engine hp. Which is about 20-25whp. Easily done, no problem and cost about $2000 respectively.

My mistake on shorting the 5hp on the 458. How does the 458 take to aftermarket bolt ons? What is there that can be done to make improvements and what’s it cost? I don’t know. I'd assume a decat at least and possibly at the most. Guess we would have to look at the % gained through NA bolt ons between the two to see what engine design yields the most.
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Yes, my mistake on the 40HP. Explain (better yet prove) how you get 30 additional HP for $2k ? I owned two S2000's about 9 years ago, first I have heard of this. I purchased a replica Toda Header and Supersprint exhaust for my second S2000 in hopes of maybe 10 additional HP at the crank. These two pieces alone were well over $2K and basically done to enhance sound.

Go over to Ferrarichat or visit Fabspeed if you want to see what exhaust upgrades will net an otherwise stock 458.

WolfpackS2k

Why did someone bring up the LSX454?! Besides not being found in any production vehicles that is not a SMALL BLOCK engine, which was the original off topic discussion.

helmincamaro

The LSX454 IS a LSX Block, which is a small block.... I've swapped one in a camaro in place of a LS3... everything goes in exactly the same.

Zoidberg

On the subject of weight:
http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showth...GHT-DIFFERENCE

Please note that this includes the transmission and units are in kg. The difference when you include transmission is about 160lbs, which is about the weight of 1 passenger.

I expect that much of the added weight in my link is in the transmission (you estimate an LS1/2 to be approx 75lbs more than F20, so transmission would add about 75lbs as well). But the transmission is low and toward the center of the car.