steve c

40 years later ...

The 911 is not dated -- every generation looks distinctly different. Not sure what this has to do with the fact that the S2000 is at this point rotting on the vine .. but whatever.

It is. Every other maker in the segment has updated their car. Honda has slapped some cosmetics on the car, taken the soul out of the motor for the US market and softened the suspension up. Yay. The car still looks and performs the same .... 7 years later ... dated.

In that time BMW changed the Z3 cosmetically and mechanically making it faster -- then gave us the Z4. Porsche did the same thing with the Boxster. Mazda did the same with the miata -- entirely new cars that are better than their predecessors. Honda continues to give us ... the S2000 ... only softer.

Smaller anti-roll bars. Softer spring rates, softer dampers, etc etc. The car is softer. It is safer for your average idiot driver too ... but still softer.

My S2000's have always been back up track cars -- because I own cars that are more fun on the track and I'm not to fond of an open top car with roll bars that are below my head on the track.

No, I'm telling you that you are wrong when you say Porsche only makes sports cars.

Right. So Porche only focuses on the 911 now. Forget the Boxster, the Cayman, the Cayenne, their forthcoming sedan .. they only focus on the 911.

pantyraider

Left hand side is a 996, right hand side is a 997. Oops, it's the other way around. Same look for 7 years, just like the S2000.

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2069?mid=200...141482&mime=asc

Go take a look at that article. Gives specifics on what was changed. Front spring rates were stiffened, rear was softened. Rear sway bar was softened.

Frankly, if you actually did some serious tracking of your S2000 you would know that softening the rear , and stiffeneing the front was what was exactly needed. Go to the R&C forums here and you'll see numerous people have put on big stiff FSB, and some have unhooked their rear sway bars to prevent wheel lift.

BTW, a recent post in the R&C forum shows the OEM shock dynos of an 04 car and an 01 car. Guess which one had more rebound (stiffer)? The 04.


So I guess the Boxster is Porsche's marquee car right? Or is it the Boxter with a hard top Cayman? The 911 is Porsche's bread-and-butter, if you can't see that then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Bottom line, if you think the Porsche 911 styling isn't dated, then you're talking out of your ass to claim the S2000 is. Plain and simple.

PLYRS 3

yes and yes.

steve c

Nice attempt to hide the newer in the back and the angles to not show the various differences.

No, what both cars need are aftermarket suspensions -- but this has nothing to do with the fact that the newer cars are softer and understeer more.

Bottom line, you can continue to attempt to hide from reality and direct attention elsewhere. The S2000 is now dated both cosmetically and moreso mechanically. Whether the 911 is or is not is not relevant to this fact at all.

No one is arguing that. You made an incorrect statement and you were corrected. Deal with it -- preferably not by distracting and confusing the issue.

Jeep Guy

An overbloated POS that nobody will ever take off road. As far as I can tell, the Cayenne is for the wives of POC racers to tool around town with while their hubbys are out racing.

pantyraider

Actually I just did a search for "porsche 996 997" in google and I took what the first link gave from me. There really aren't many differences. Stop deluding yourself.

Nice attempt at completely ignoring what I wrote, and responding with something totatlly nonsensical to a stock OEM car. The car needs to come with a aftermarket suspension?? What??

Bottom line is you need to stop passing off your misguided opinions as fact. You know a lot less than you think you know. And I think the 911 is totally relevant to this discussion based solely off the fact that it shows how biased your opinion is.

If the S2000 is so dated cosmetically and mechanically like you say, then I'd say Honda is doing a damn good job of designing a car that is just as good as its competition 7 years later.

TwiBlueG35

You can't expect any car to attract attention forever.

steve c

Bottom line, I am presenting facts and your inability to understand that and take corrections has put us here -- an inflated thread full of attempted misdirections to cover this up.

Again, fact is the S2000 is both mechanically and cosmetically old and stale ... rotting on the vine if you will. Fact -- the competition, Mazda and BMW not only updated their cars mid-cycle in more complete manners than Honda has done -- they offered subsequent COMPLETEY NEW AND BETTER MODELS TOO.

Again -- FACT the newer cars are softer. You can attempt to distract on this matter again and again -- but there it is --- reality smacking you in the face.

Oh god, I'm trying to educate an NSX fanboi. Nevermind.

pantyraider

HA- that's the funniest part. You think you're giving facts. At least I've actually given sources, and actual figures.

FACT- the front spring rates are stiffened. Rear rates softened. FACT- rear rebound stiffer than pre-04 cars. And steve I'm dissappointed, I would think a sports car owner especially one who drives a GT car like the TT would know that stiffer does not always equal better. Do you want steel rods instead of a suspension? That makes it stiffer right?


That's right , fall back to your old tired anti-NSX bit.

steve c

What you have given is misdirection in some bizzaare attempt to avoid the truth. Hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

No, but softer in this case equals more understeer. Lame.

The overall affect has ... duh duh dumn ... softened the car and induced more understeer. Why? Because the old car exhibited nasty habits near the edge of control that most dumb American drivers could not handle. I guess if you want to be fussy about it -- the rear spring rate was reduced by 10 percent and the fronts increased by 7 -- giving a net loss of 3 percent ... not to mention the smaller diameter rear anti-roll. Again -- whatever.

Maybe because the 01 springs were used for 5 years? Could it be?