S2k still have curb appeal?
#51
I thought I made it clear that we were talking about looks.
40 years later ...
The 911 is not dated -- every generation looks distinctly different. Not sure what this has to do with the fact that the S2000 is at this point rotting on the vine .. but whatever.
Didn't you say the S2000 styling is dated?
In that time BMW changed the Z3 cosmetically and mechanically making it faster -- then gave us the Z4. Porsche did the same thing with the Boxster. Mazda did the same with the miata -- entirely new cars that are better than their predecessors. Honda continues to give us ... the S2000 ... only softer.
Bottom line is there have been numerous changes to the AP2: lower rear roll center, reduced bumpsteer, more torque, stronger diff, wider tires etc. etc.
Do you actually take your S2000 to the track?
u're telling me that Porsche isn't a sports-car company because they make one SUV?
Honda isn't only focusing on the S2000 like Porsche focuses on the 911.
#52
Registered User
Originally Posted by steve c,Jan 30 2006, 02:22 PM
40 years later ...
The 911 is not dated -- every generation looks distinctly different. Not sure what this has to do with the fact that the S2000 is at this point rotting on the vine .. but whatever.
It is. Every other maker in the segment has updated their car. Honda has slapped some cosmetics on the car, taken the soul out of the motor for the US market and softened the suspension up. Yay. The car still looks and performs the same .... 7 years later ... dated.
In that time BMW changed the Z3 cosmetically and mechanically making it faster -- then gave us the Z4. Porsche did the same thing with the Boxster. Mazda did the same with the miata -- entirely new cars that are better than their predecessors. Honda continues to give us ... the S2000 ... only softer.
Smaller anti-roll bars. Softer spring rates, softer dampers, etc etc. The car is softer. It is safer for your average idiot driver too ... but still softer.
My S2000's have always been back up track cars -- because I own cars that are more fun on the track and I'm not to fond of an open top car with roll bars that are below my head on the track.
No, I'm telling you that you are wrong when you say Porsche only makes sports cars.
Right. So Porche only focuses on the 911 now. Forget the Boxster, the Cayman, the Cayenne, their forthcoming sedan .. they only focus on the 911.
Left hand side is a 996, right hand side is a 997. Oops, it's the other way around. Same look for 7 years, just like the S2000.
Smaller anti-roll bars. Softer spring rates, softer dampers, etc etc. The car is softer. It is safer for your average idiot driver too ... but still softer.
Go take a look at that article. Gives specifics on what was changed. Front spring rates were stiffened, rear was softened. Rear sway bar was softened.
Frankly, if you actually did some serious tracking of your S2000 you would know that softening the rear , and stiffeneing the front was what was exactly needed. Go to the R&C forums here and you'll see numerous people have put on big stiff FSB, and some have unhooked their rear sway bars to prevent wheel lift.
BTW, a recent post in the R&C forum shows the OEM shock dynos of an 04 car and an 01 car. Guess which one had more rebound (stiffer)? The 04.
Right. So Porche only focuses on the 911 now. Forget the Boxster, the Cayman, the Cayenne, their forthcoming sedan .. they only focus on the 911.
So I guess the Boxster is Porsche's marquee car right? Or is it the Boxter with a hard top Cayman? The 911 is Porsche's bread-and-butter, if you can't see that then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Bottom line, if you think the Porsche 911 styling isn't dated, then you're talking out of your ass to claim the S2000 is. Plain and simple.
#53
Registered User
Originally Posted by pantyraider,Jan 30 2006, 05:55 PM
The 911 is Porsche's bread-and-butter.
if you can't see that then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
if you can't see that then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
#54
Left hand side is a 996, right hand side is a 997. Oops, it's the other way around. Same look for 7 years, just like the S2000.
Frankly, if you actually did some serious tracking of your S2000 you would know that softening the rear , and stiffeneing the front was what was exactly needed. Go to the R&C forums here and you'll see numerous people have put on big stiff FSB, and some have unhooked their rear sway bars to prevent wheel lift.
Bottom line, if you think the Porsche 911 styling isn't dated, then you're talking out of your ass to claim the S2000 is. Plain and simple.
The 911 is Porsche's bread-and-butter.
#55
Originally Posted by steve c,Jan 30 2006, 12:32 PM
What is the Cayenne then.
#56
Registered User
Originally Posted by steve c,Jan 30 2006, 03:11 PM
Nice attempt to hide the newer in the back and the angles to not show the various differences.
No, what both cars need are aftermarket suspensions -- but this has nothing to do with the fact that the newer cars are softer and understeer more.
Bottom line, you can continue to attempt to hide from reality and direct attention elsewhere. The S2000 is now dated both cosmetically and moreso mechanically. Whether the 911 is or is not is not relevant to this fact at all.
No, what both cars need are aftermarket suspensions -- but this has nothing to do with the fact that the newer cars are softer and understeer more.
Bottom line, you can continue to attempt to hide from reality and direct attention elsewhere. The S2000 is now dated both cosmetically and moreso mechanically. Whether the 911 is or is not is not relevant to this fact at all.
Nice attempt to hide the newer in the back and the angles to not show the various differences.
No, what both cars need are aftermarket suspensions -- but this has nothing to do with the fact that the newer cars are softer and understeer more.
Bottom line, you can continue to attempt to hide from reality and direct attention elsewhere. The S2000 is now dated both cosmetically and moreso mechanically. Whether the 911 is or is not is not relevant to this fact at all.
If the S2000 is so dated cosmetically and mechanically like you say, then I'd say Honda is doing a damn good job of designing a car that is just as good as its competition 7 years later.
#58
Bottom line is you need to stop passing off your misguided opinions as fact.
Again, fact is the S2000 is both mechanically and cosmetically old and stale ... rotting on the vine if you will. Fact -- the competition, Mazda and BMW not only updated their cars mid-cycle in more complete manners than Honda has done -- they offered subsequent COMPLETEY NEW AND BETTER MODELS TOO.
The car needs to come with a aftermarket suspension?? What??
If the S2000 is so dated cosmetically and mechanically like you say, then I'd say Honda is doing a damn good job of designing a car that is just as good as its competition 7 years later.
#59
Registered User
Originally Posted by steve c,Jan 30 2006, 03:33 PM
Bottom line, I am presenting facts and your inability to understand that and take corrections has put us here -- an inflated thread full of attempted misdirections to cover this up.
Again, fact is the S2000 is both mechanically and cosmetically old and stale ... rotting on the vine if you will. Fact -- the competition, Mazda and BMW not only updated their cars mid-cycle in more complete manners than Honda has done -- they offered subsequent COMPLETEY NEW AND BETTER MODELS TOO.
Again, fact is the S2000 is both mechanically and cosmetically old and stale ... rotting on the vine if you will. Fact -- the competition, Mazda and BMW not only updated their cars mid-cycle in more complete manners than Honda has done -- they offered subsequent COMPLETEY NEW AND BETTER MODELS TOO.
HA- that's the funniest part. You think you're giving facts. At least I've actually given sources, and actual figures.
Again -- FACT the newer cars are softer. You can attempt to distract on this matter again and again -- but there it is --- reality smacking you in the face.
Oh god, I'm trying to educate an NSX fanboi. Nevermind.
#60
At least I've actually given sources, and actual figures
stiffer does not always equal better.
FACT- the front spring rates are stiffened. Rear rates softened. FACT- rear rebound stiffer than pre-04 cars.
BTW, a recent post in the R&C forum shows the OEM shock dynos of an 04 car and an 01 car. Guess which one had more rebound (stiffer)? The 04