S2000 or Lotus Elise
10-11-2003, 04:05 AM
#31
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I had a brief look at an Elise before purchasing my used s2000.
Both were same year model - the elise was a little bit more expensive.
The main factor that I chose the s2000 was that it actually has a boot (even though it is small), and the fact that the elise seems so bare inside.
Check some reviews for both at:
www.topgear.com
M@
Both were same year model - the elise was a little bit more expensive.
The main factor that I chose the s2000 was that it actually has a boot (even though it is small), and the fact that the elise seems so bare inside.
Check some reviews for both at:
www.topgear.com
M@
10-11-2003, 04:47 AM
#32
I find this thread funny now. S2000 owners arguing that the S2000 is the right choice because it is a practical car! Ha Ha. I imagine most other people in the population would just scratch their heads at that position. Of course, the S2000 is MORE practical than the Elise, but how many of you bought the S2000 because it was a practical car? I will admit, if this is to be your only car, buy the S2000.
One issue to discuss in more detail is reliability. The Toyota motor and transmission should be both reliable and easy to maintain by the owner, not like a twin turbo Lotus. As for the other parts, I would look into the reputation of this model, not the reputation of the Lotus's of old. The Elise is hand made in a new factory employing some very modern techniques. The picture of the chassis in Road and Track was amazing. I wonder how they are holding up in other countries that already have them? Does anyone know? England must have a reliability study like JD powers or (ugh!) Consumer Reports.
As for resale price, you are kidding yourself if you think the Elise will not have above average resale value. Super low production and really the only car in its segment.
As for what you could make yourself with the difference in price between the Elise and the S2000, (lets say as much as $7,000) I don't think you will be beating the Elise in anything. You might equal the acceleration.
One issue to discuss in more detail is reliability. The Toyota motor and transmission should be both reliable and easy to maintain by the owner, not like a twin turbo Lotus. As for the other parts, I would look into the reputation of this model, not the reputation of the Lotus's of old. The Elise is hand made in a new factory employing some very modern techniques. The picture of the chassis in Road and Track was amazing. I wonder how they are holding up in other countries that already have them? Does anyone know? England must have a reliability study like JD powers or (ugh!) Consumer Reports.
As for resale price, you are kidding yourself if you think the Elise will not have above average resale value. Super low production and really the only car in its segment.
As for what you could make yourself with the difference in price between the Elise and the S2000, (lets say as much as $7,000) I don't think you will be beating the Elise in anything. You might equal the acceleration.
10-11-2003, 07:15 AM
#34
I just went through this decision process having watched the federalized Elise developments for months.
As the closest dealer is at least a 10 hour drive away I had concerns about warranty maintenance. Lotus USA indicated no problem and would allow subletting to a local mechanic / shop.
I wear size 10.5 EEEE shoes and that too looked to be a possible issue with the close placement of the pedals. Pictures were sent to me by a UK owner with a similar foot showing it'd be close but doable.
Then entry and exit, negotiating the thick high door sill looked to require some gyrations. Owners indicated yeah it did require a level of effort but it too was doable.
The spartan layout, narrowing leg area, and extremely close proximity of the seats all spoke to concerns about lengthy drives becoming very uncomfortable. Again some owners said yeah, not a luxury sports touring sled by any stretch of the imagaination but again doable especially if timely stops to stretch were made.
Restricted rear view was something of a safety concern too.
Bottom line is that as with most things compromise is inevitable. And with the Elise the visceral thrills, extreme handling, and great overall performance comes at a price. Was I willing to pay it at my age (I'm solidly in the baby-boomer generation)?
I waffled and then unexpectedly got a chance to drive a new S2000 that had been redistributed to our local dealer who had had only 2 or 3 allocated all year. The S2000 also has compromises but they certainly aren't as severe as the Elise. More weight, great handling but not at the Elise's level, more creature comforts, etc. I opted to go with the S2K which thusfar as been great. But I haven't completely ruled out an Elise in my future. Unquestionably both are great cars. One I consider to be in the mold of the classic sports car; the other a bare bones racer in exotic street trim.
Bob A
As the closest dealer is at least a 10 hour drive away I had concerns about warranty maintenance. Lotus USA indicated no problem and would allow subletting to a local mechanic / shop.
I wear size 10.5 EEEE shoes and that too looked to be a possible issue with the close placement of the pedals. Pictures were sent to me by a UK owner with a similar foot showing it'd be close but doable.
Then entry and exit, negotiating the thick high door sill looked to require some gyrations. Owners indicated yeah it did require a level of effort but it too was doable.
The spartan layout, narrowing leg area, and extremely close proximity of the seats all spoke to concerns about lengthy drives becoming very uncomfortable. Again some owners said yeah, not a luxury sports touring sled by any stretch of the imagaination but again doable especially if timely stops to stretch were made.
Restricted rear view was something of a safety concern too.
Bottom line is that as with most things compromise is inevitable. And with the Elise the visceral thrills, extreme handling, and great overall performance comes at a price. Was I willing to pay it at my age (I'm solidly in the baby-boomer generation)?
I waffled and then unexpectedly got a chance to drive a new S2000 that had been redistributed to our local dealer who had had only 2 or 3 allocated all year. The S2000 also has compromises but they certainly aren't as severe as the Elise. More weight, great handling but not at the Elise's level, more creature comforts, etc. I opted to go with the S2K which thusfar as been great. But I haven't completely ruled out an Elise in my future. Unquestionably both are great cars. One I consider to be in the mold of the classic sports car; the other a bare bones racer in exotic street trim.
Bob A
10-11-2003, 09:48 AM
#37
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keep in mind that while honda is one of the world's largest engine builders,lotus has never built their own engine/transmission...they have,from the beginning,been on the leading edge of chassis/suspension design and construction...looks,comfort,[even safety] have always been way below total performance on their list...the list of techical innovations is impressive...first tube frame/monocoque in a production car[super seven]..first total composite monocoque [first series elite] chapman strut suspension[now the industry standard]..first true backbone chassis [first series elan]..first integrated composite floorpan/monocoque [late elan]..and so on...
and when choosing engines they usually go for the most power available within the design package...
so by and large when you buy a lotus,you receive maximum performance with a mimimum[or deletion] of most everything else...for the record there was a time when lotus[minus chapman and under outside ownership] wavered a bit but i see the elise as a return to the true lotus vision...and yes i have loti..a 65 super seven,69 europa,60 elite sII...and still love my s2000 to death...
uh..what was the original question? ..if you have the means i reccomend one of each..
and just to exite conversation..a good friend commented that driving my s2000 was just like driving his elise with boxing gloves on...
and when choosing engines they usually go for the most power available within the design package...
so by and large when you buy a lotus,you receive maximum performance with a mimimum[or deletion] of most everything else...for the record there was a time when lotus[minus chapman and under outside ownership] wavered a bit but i see the elise as a return to the true lotus vision...and yes i have loti..a 65 super seven,69 europa,60 elite sII...and still love my s2000 to death...
uh..what was the original question? ..if you have the means i reccomend one of each..
and just to exite conversation..a good friend commented that driving my s2000 was just like driving his elise with boxing gloves on...
10-11-2003, 10:28 AM
#38
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Prolene, the Toyota ECU is being reworked by Lotus and the gear ratios updated to match the car. I'm pretty sure Lotus is not going to let there be any gaps in the performance.
Check out www.elisetalk.com, another good car forum.
Check out www.elisetalk.com, another good car forum.
10-11-2003, 10:54 AM
#39
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dbw
and when choosing engines they usually go for the most power available within the design package...
so by and large when you buy a lotus,you receive maximum performance with a mimimum[or deletion] of most everything else......
and when choosing engines they usually go for the most power available within the design package...
so by and large when you buy a lotus,you receive maximum performance with a mimimum[or deletion] of most everything else......
BUT have we all forgot British wiring and electronics? I hope to God that part is not British! I have worked on a friend of mine's MG and Spitfire and sweet Jesus! Those cars are an exercise in "what not to do lessons" from my electrical engineering classes in college.
10-11-2003, 04:03 PM
#40
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actually there's a lot that goes into a choice for a propriatary powertrain...cost as a %tage of the total car is a great factor,but other things must be considered...will someone like honda/porsche even agree to sell power units for use in another car?..numbers of units available in bulk?,parts inventory and warrantee status?,liability?,re-certification?...a whole bunch of stuff...i'm not defending the current choice but we don't know all the details...as far as electronics/wiring go,the UK has come a long way..just ask happy jaguar owners...[and when was that spitfire built anyway..]