steve c

That's just stupid TTB, when are all things ever equal?

No. If the Accord produces the EPA numbers they claim, it will be a great vehicle, hell even if it does not I am happy to see someone offering a very non-compromised usable Hybrid. I will dig around for the article I came across wherein Toyota was identified as the leader in Hybrid technology.

emc2

I was never a brand specific person like some but...I will NEVER buy another Ford piece of cr@p again. I paid $47k for a fully loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition and almost lived at the dealer. And one would think since I was there so much they would at least be courtious. No that would be asking way to much from them. This wasn't just one dealer...this was several and they ALL treated the customers the same. The worst part was the value of the pile of Ford was so bad that after 1 year it was about 55% of what I paid. Lets look at that...that is close to $21k loss in 1 year. Even the Ford dealerships knows they suck because they would give me any more than any other dealer would...I think the issue that sticks in my mind the most was being stranded in the middle of the high desert at 2am because the ignition system just got tired of working. Anyone know how freaking cold it gets at night in the high desert. Damn near froze to death waiting 3+ hours for a towtruck.

I remember the exact day I got rid of that Ford...I was down at the BMW dealer wasting time before I went to a friends party and was looking at the X5 4.4i sport edition. Went on a test drive and loved it. They were doing the whole salesperson thing when I got back..."what do we have to do to get you in this" I threw out "$5k off the sticker and pay the Ford off". Thinking no way they are going to do that since it was about time for me to be getting to the party. Needless to say I was late to it and drove up in a new BMW. Best thing I ever did!!! I had the X5 for 50k mile and only 1 thing ever went wrong it was a freak occurance because the mech said he has never heard of that sensor going out. I know the guy personally so it wasn't like he was feeding a line of BS. So out of 50k miles it was in the shop 1 day and the loaner car was BMW 330i and not a POS Focus

I know that there are going to be a few problem vehicles from any manufacturer and I got one from Ford no getting around that...that in it self did not sour my taste for them... it was the total lack of any customer service they provided. I felt like I was a number or just another face in the crowd and they could care less. With BMW though they new who I was and greeted me by name...some by first others just by the last name but they always said hi. A little personal touch go a long long way with me...Even though I sold my X5 I WILL buy another...just waiting for the new body style.

I am no clueless kid repeating what I heard. When I was a kid all my father owned were Ford trucks but they were the early to mid 70's ones and I will admit they were pretty tough but now...now not so much. I won't even think about a Ford...any of them. Though if someone would to give me the Ford GT I would take it but no money of mine will go to buy it. I will admit the new mustang looks nice and every so often I see one in a magizine and go wow then I realize what it is.

Even without the bad experience I have had I don't know if I would still buy one...it is kinda like the the new C6 vette...looks great and performs great but do they all come with AC/DC in the CD player from the factory? Everyone I see it either has some guy wishing he had his mullet back listening to some buttrock band really loud

Right now not many domestic "called" cars are on par with the German and Japanesse cars. Fact maybe...but it is true in my eyes

ttb

it's like this...

you can't compare the stopping distance between car X and car Y per se...but given car X weighs 5000 lbs and stops in 200 feet you can argue that 5000 lbs sucks because if it weighed 3000lbs it would stop in less than 200 feet.

same w/ how faster it goes....

Pakisho

Cant believe no one saw this.

Solid gold, right here.

Slamnasty

Toyota has a very slight edge in hybrid technology. I would however, personally, still peg Honda as the leader, as they have the more accessible hybrids (pricewise).

Toyota's hybrids:
Prius
RX300h
GS450h (I hear this is coming soon)

Honda's hybrids:
Insight
Civic
Accord

They both have about the same number of hybrids available, and about equal numbers upcoming. Noth have produced hybrid supercar concepts as well.

One thing's for sure, it'll be Honda and Toyota together that make hybrids cool. That is, unless BMW nails the Hydrogen thing real good...

sleekblackroadster

in the automotive world, complexity abounds. the sheer number of factors that make cars what they are and decide how they perform on paper, on a track, on a leisurely road trip or even in the eyes of an onlooker guarantee that discrepancies will ensue perpetually between those of us humans who prefer specific facets and choose to express our estimations through the medium of debate.

argue all you want people, but understand that an opinion is nothing more and nothing less.

oh but stop trying to argue with the obviously enlightened steve c, he puts most of you to shame.

Dolemike

I for one am a recent previous owner of a *gulp* FORD and my experience was pure HELL. I bought a Contour SVT with 24,000 miles on it. At 30,000 miles the tranny crapped out on me, the dealership did a shitty job with the new tranny as they forgot to put one of the motor mount bolts back in. Got that fixed. For some reason the windows in the back would not roll down from the rear at random times... it would have to be rolled down from the drivers side switches. Then at 80,000 miles the transmission went out... AGAIN. This time i had it rebuilt since it was out of warranty by a reputable transmission rebuilder. With 150k on it, the transmission was about to go AGAIN and the engine was about to crap out. I ditched that POS for MY01, albeit I didnt get the best deal worked out but I got out of that horrible car and im MUCH MUCH happier with my s2000. Generally speaking... Fords just suck. Those that dont have problems with them should consider themselves lucky... hope the new line of them are built better.

sleekblackroadster

someone appriciates my imput

steven975

i would say toyota is the hybrid tech leader while honda is the hybrid application leader.

toyota's hybrid system is VERY complex and relatively bulky. the gas and electric motor are separate and are connected via a planetary gearset (which has limits in the torque it can handle). the gas and electric motors can run separately or together.

honda's electric motor is in-line with the crank, sitting between the engine and tranny. The electric motor cannot run alone, because when the motor spins, the crank spins (and a gas motor that isn't on shows a lot of resistance). the gas motor runs all the time, but is assisted by the electric one when needed. The advantage to honda's system is that it is VERY thin (1-2" thick) and can be adapted to ANY vehicle fairly easily.

toyota's larger motor makes more torque, but larger motors also need more electricity. it is a tradoff. Both methods impress me, but I think Honda's system is more marketable as it probably costs less than toyota's and is easy to implement.

ford is using toyota's tech as it nissan. Not sure about GM's. honda and toyota are definitely the leaders in the tech. toyota is more open to licensing because it likely costed more to develop and manufacture. i think honda is happy not licensign theirs for the time being.

sleekblackroadster

where are the ford mustang hybrids?!?! wild prancing horses man!