View Poll Results: R6 vs 600RR?
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R6 vs 600RR?
05-16-2003, 12:16 PM
#11
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This is a direct quote from amasuperbike.com
[QUOTE]600 Title Fight: It's Not Power-To-Weight
it's torque per pound
by stephen scharf
Thursday, May 08, 2003
The late, great, sports car driver Al Holbert once said in an interview that the key to fast lap times "is not power to weight, but torque per pound."
The new Yamaha R6 is proving Holbert to be right, despite all the pre-season hype around the Honda CBR600-RR.
AMASoup talked to Al Ludington of the Honda factory squad, and asked him how things are going. He immediately mentioned that getting the CBR sussed has been a problem for the team this year. There are three main problems areas: Weight, torque, and turn-in.
Weight
The Honda weighs 412 lbs. with coolant and oil, no fuel. The R6 weighs 388 lbs., the Kawasaki ZX-6RR 389 lbs., and the Suzuki GSXR600 390 lbs. That's a 24 lb difference not counting fuel-carrying differences. That extra weight, while not having a big influence on top speed, really influences acceleration, and that affects drive off the corner.
Torque
While the Hondas make excellent peak horsepower, the R6's flat leave the Hondas for dead coming out of the corner. Reason: 2mm more stroke. The R6, when prepped, has it all over the Honda in the midrange due to the increase in torque from the greater stroke.
Turn-in
The Honda riders can't get the turn-in speed that they need with the CBR. With the requirement that triple clamps and offset remain stock, the Honda teams can only play games with ride height to get changes in geometry, and to date, they still can't get the geometry they need.
Roadracing theory will tell you that exit speed off the corners is the most important determinant of top speed down the next straightaway, and as a consequence, a big determinant of lap-times. That exit speed is determined by torque and pounds, just as Al Holbert said.
The R6's turn quicker, and that, combined with less weight and better drive out of the corners due to more torque, means the Hondas are getting dropped like climbers in a Tour de France sprint finish.
This year, Holbert's theory is best exemplified by the new Yamaha R6. Thus far.[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]600 Title Fight: It's Not Power-To-Weight
it's torque per pound
by stephen scharf
Thursday, May 08, 2003
The late, great, sports car driver Al Holbert once said in an interview that the key to fast lap times "is not power to weight, but torque per pound."
The new Yamaha R6 is proving Holbert to be right, despite all the pre-season hype around the Honda CBR600-RR.
AMASoup talked to Al Ludington of the Honda factory squad, and asked him how things are going. He immediately mentioned that getting the CBR sussed has been a problem for the team this year. There are three main problems areas: Weight, torque, and turn-in.
Weight
The Honda weighs 412 lbs. with coolant and oil, no fuel. The R6 weighs 388 lbs., the Kawasaki ZX-6RR 389 lbs., and the Suzuki GSXR600 390 lbs. That's a 24 lb difference not counting fuel-carrying differences. That extra weight, while not having a big influence on top speed, really influences acceleration, and that affects drive off the corner.
Torque
While the Hondas make excellent peak horsepower, the R6's flat leave the Hondas for dead coming out of the corner. Reason: 2mm more stroke. The R6, when prepped, has it all over the Honda in the midrange due to the increase in torque from the greater stroke.
Turn-in
The Honda riders can't get the turn-in speed that they need with the CBR. With the requirement that triple clamps and offset remain stock, the Honda teams can only play games with ride height to get changes in geometry, and to date, they still can't get the geometry they need.
Roadracing theory will tell you that exit speed off the corners is the most important determinant of top speed down the next straightaway, and as a consequence, a big determinant of lap-times. That exit speed is determined by torque and pounds, just as Al Holbert said.
The R6's turn quicker, and that, combined with less weight and better drive out of the corners due to more torque, means the Hondas are getting dropped like climbers in a Tour de France sprint finish.
This year, Holbert's theory is best exemplified by the new Yamaha R6. Thus far.[QUOTE]
05-16-2003, 08:06 PM
#13
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The new RR looks nice, almost nice as the YZFs, but honda in general, makes a boring bike. I have not ridden a 600rr, but from my past experiences (f3, f4, 929), honda bikes are snoozers compared to yamaha and suzuki. Too bad yamaha didn't make cars, I would buy a Yamaha YZF caR1 just based on how hard edged their sportbikes are.
05-16-2003, 08:33 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by nevert00fast
This is a direct quote from amasuperbike.com
[QUOTE]600 Title Fight: It's Not Power-To-Weight
it's torque per pound
by stephen scharf
Thursday, May 08, 2003
The late, great, sports car driver Al Holbert once said in an interview that the key to fast lap times "is not power to weight, but torque per pound."
The new Yamaha R6 is proving Holbert to be right, despite all the pre-season hype around the Honda CBR600-RR.
AMASoup talked to Al Ludington of the Honda factory squad, and asked him how things are going. He immediately mentioned that getting the CBR sussed has been a problem for the team this year. There are three main problems areas: Weight, torque, and turn-in.
Weight
The Honda weighs 412 lbs. with coolant and oil, no fuel. The R6 weighs 388 lbs., the Kawasaki ZX-6RR 389 lbs., and the Suzuki GSXR600 390 lbs. That's a 24 lb difference not counting fuel-carrying differences. That extra weight, while not having a big influence on top speed, really influences acceleration, and that affects drive off the corner.
Torque
While the Hondas make excellent peak horsepower, the R6's flat leave the Hondas for dead coming out of the corner. Reason: 2mm more stroke. The R6, when prepped, has it all over the Honda in the midrange due to the increase in torque from the greater stroke.
Turn-in
The Honda riders can't get the turn-in speed that they need with the CBR. With the requirement that triple clamps and offset remain stock, the Honda teams can only play games with ride height to get changes in geometry, and to date, they still can't get the geometry they need.
Roadracing theory will tell you that exit speed off the corners is the most important determinant of top speed down the next straightaway, and as a consequence, a big determinant of lap-times. That exit speed is determined by torque and pounds, just as Al Holbert said.
The R6's turn quicker, and that, combined with less weight and better drive out of the corners due to more torque, means the Hondas are getting dropped like climbers in a Tour de France sprint finish.
This year, Holbert's theory is best exemplified by the new Yamaha R6. Thus far.motorcyclist has nothing bad to say about the RR, they like it the most. yet amasuperbike.com has nothing but bad for the RR.
the only way to find out is from personal experience.
This is a direct quote from amasuperbike.com
[QUOTE]600 Title Fight: It's Not Power-To-Weight
it's torque per pound
by stephen scharf
Thursday, May 08, 2003
The late, great, sports car driver Al Holbert once said in an interview that the key to fast lap times "is not power to weight, but torque per pound."
The new Yamaha R6 is proving Holbert to be right, despite all the pre-season hype around the Honda CBR600-RR.
AMASoup talked to Al Ludington of the Honda factory squad, and asked him how things are going. He immediately mentioned that getting the CBR sussed has been a problem for the team this year. There are three main problems areas: Weight, torque, and turn-in.
Weight
The Honda weighs 412 lbs. with coolant and oil, no fuel. The R6 weighs 388 lbs., the Kawasaki ZX-6RR 389 lbs., and the Suzuki GSXR600 390 lbs. That's a 24 lb difference not counting fuel-carrying differences. That extra weight, while not having a big influence on top speed, really influences acceleration, and that affects drive off the corner.
Torque
While the Hondas make excellent peak horsepower, the R6's flat leave the Hondas for dead coming out of the corner. Reason: 2mm more stroke. The R6, when prepped, has it all over the Honda in the midrange due to the increase in torque from the greater stroke.
Turn-in
The Honda riders can't get the turn-in speed that they need with the CBR. With the requirement that triple clamps and offset remain stock, the Honda teams can only play games with ride height to get changes in geometry, and to date, they still can't get the geometry they need.
Roadracing theory will tell you that exit speed off the corners is the most important determinant of top speed down the next straightaway, and as a consequence, a big determinant of lap-times. That exit speed is determined by torque and pounds, just as Al Holbert said.
The R6's turn quicker, and that, combined with less weight and better drive out of the corners due to more torque, means the Hondas are getting dropped like climbers in a Tour de France sprint finish.
This year, Holbert's theory is best exemplified by the new Yamaha R6. Thus far.motorcyclist has nothing bad to say about the RR, they like it the most. yet amasuperbike.com has nothing but bad for the RR.
the only way to find out is from personal experience.
05-19-2003, 04:06 PM
#16
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I am and always will be a Yamaha purist. Like suvh8r said, if Yamaha made a car, I would definitely buy it based on my experiences with Yammies. They are just unbelievable bikes. The only Honda bike I was ever interested in was the RC51, all of the others to me are just too lame and boring.
05-19-2003, 07:30 PM
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honda bikes are boring (on the street) because of their smoothe powerband. on the track thats what makes their bikes great because there will be now surprises coming out of a corner, such as a sudden power boost. honda makes the best engines on their dirtbikes.
i have never ridden a honda sportbike so i cant really state my oppinion on them, but my svs is awesome! (very very smoothe powerband.)
i have never ridden a honda sportbike so i cant really state my oppinion on them, but my svs is awesome! (very very smoothe powerband.)
05-20-2003, 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by UKjasonm
They did once make a car, it was a two seater balls out sports car, I think it had a 1.3L engine and made 250BHP, not many were produced, in fact im not sure if it ever made full production.
They did once make a car, it was a two seater balls out sports car, I think it had a 1.3L engine and made 250BHP, not many were produced, in fact im not sure if it ever made full production.