rai

It's easy, if the domestics were such great cars, they wouldn't have to give back 20-30% off in incentives. They wouldn't need to give 6 years no intrest financing.

Some domestics like Cadillac are OK and don't need as much give back.

Anrosphynx

i don't think the incentives have anything to do with the quality of the car. Its a ploy to sell more cars. Especially when the economy is on a down turn...

shaundesjardins

it's a ploy to take away sales from Mazda/Honda/Toyota because their sales (at least in Canada) have been excellent in the last 2 years where GM's and Ford's have been terrible.

daabc

suvh8r: you sir.....don't know how to buy a car. Consumers never ever pay MSRP, you look at the out the door price. Or in this instance what you think you can get the car for out the door.

My estimate would be if you buy the g6 right now the price would be around $26,000-$27,000 out the door.

The G6 is new. ANY car that is new will probably sell at a premium and be difficult to haggle the price down just because it is NEW.

Remember when the current gen Honda Accord came out new a few years back.....and people were paying a premium.......about $32,000 out the door for a V6 accord

Once the car been at dealers for a few months.....price will go down and it will be easier to haggle.

My guest would be the current top of the line G6 will sell out the door for around $23,000 by next April or so.

Wdwrd_cruzr

Would you please pull your head out of your ass before replying with such an uneducated comment?

Quik - keep up the schooling.

suvh8r

[QUOTE=daabc,Sep 30 2004, 10:44 PM] suvh8r:

QUIKAG

GM has a sales strategy where they overprice a car and then offer rebates and incentives to convince a potential buyer that they're getting a 'better deal' on a car versus a Honda or Toyota or whatever that doesn't discount as much. Someone is looking at a $26k G6 with $4k in incentives and rebates or they're looking at a $26k Accord V6 with only $2k in incentives and rebates. A lot of people would take the G6 solely for the fact that they're getting a $2k better deal.

Understand?

While I may agree that a $24k Accord is better than a $22k G6, that extra $2k means a lot to some people and that is why GM is still the largest car company in the world. They may not be the most profitable, but they're working on that. Toyota, Honda, etc. don't have to deal with labor unions and the skyrocketing cost of health care here in the U.S.

steven975

toyota/honda and the like DO give out healthcare to their workers, too. Unions could organize at their sites...it is NOT illegal like some seem to think (they are right to work states). GM/ford and the like have a long history of screwing over their workers; it is workers vs company 24/7. The same isn't true for Honda/toyota/bmw and the like.

Also, yes, GM states an MSRP (that is rediculous given the competition) and gives incentives. Problem is, the amount they are giving out is WAY too high to make money. They know they have to improve the quality in order to avoid the incentives (Lutz knows this).

Also, some say that they make their money in financing. True, but not now. That 0% financing means they make NEGATIVE income (due to inflation and opportunity cost) and will for a while. Also, when they have to reposses a car, it is worth LOTS less than the balance on the loan...0% has gutted the values of used domestics...totally gutted them.

GMs got a long way to go. They've fixed cadillac, but even with the new chevys like the SSR and Equinox they've a ways to go (these are consistently knocked on fit/finish).

Anrosphynx

I would agree that GM still has a way to go, but i do not think that the transition in product is as drastic as you might think. You stated that they fixed cadillac, how long did it take? 3, maybe 4 years? You are seeing the revamp of pontiac with the new G6, the G7 coming (grand prix replacement), the new bonneville (rear drive and V-8 northstar) and the new solstice... buick and chevy are next.. watch out for GM.. give them 5-10 years and they are going to start taking more market share..

2004STWOK

Steer clear of first-year Pontiacs. I made that mistake with the all new for 1999 Grand Am Ram Air GT. It spent more time at the Pontiac garage than in mine. Needless to say it was traded before the warranty expired on a new '01 Accord V6.

American vehicles just don't have the quality and value that the Japan counterparts do. There are exceptions, but for the most part... NO!

The '05 GTO has been bumped up to a 6 liter and pushes 400HP.