steven975

[QUOTE=QUIKAG,Sep 30 2004, 07:12 AM] Hey you Japanese car fans, find me a 350+hp currently produced sports car from Japan that can have the shit beat out of it on the track for thousands of miles and still run perfectly with no problems and I'll buy it.

You also find me a Japanese truck that can tow over 15,000lbs reliably for a few hundred thousands miles and I'll buy it.

Well, guess what?

Anrosphynx

i get really tired of the "press says.." argument. Don't we understand that these arguments are subjective? I have driven and sat in base model civics, corollas, and they are NO better in fit and finish than a base cavalier.. in fact, the base cavalier has more standard features than the base civic/corrolla.

Anrosphynx

however, I will agree with some above poster that said that it is usually the accessory components like alternators, ect.. that tend to go bad with GM cars, not the engine. I will agree with that. I believe that many of the parts that GM uses, that they do not actually manufacture, (outsourced) are probably sub par and have hurt their sales.. However, the powertrain of most GM cars are actually quite good. As I stated earlier i have a base sunfire with the old 2.2 engine in it. It has decent power considering... I would definitely take my base model sunfire over a base model civic or corolla of even year. Sorry, but those engines are uninspiring, and i am not going to spend 4 thousand dollars to get the performance of a base model japanese car up to par.. not worth to me..

QUIKAG

That's where I think you're wrong. Go drive a used, higher mileage C5 that has been pretty well maintained and you'll probably be surprised. I know several with well over 100k miles on them with dozens of track days on them and they still feel very solid and strong.

I'll be the first to admit that with the bread and butter cars, the Japanese have the Americans beat, but I'm proud to be an American because their ingenuity shines through with cars like the C5, C6, Viper, Ford GT, 300C, CTS-V, new STS, etc.

rai

I think in general a Japanese car is a bit more reliable than a American or German car. However ALL cars today are prety reliable IMO. I don't think that's what brings home the bacon.

I think style, build quality, materials, fit and finish, driving feel etc.. are more where the US makers are behind.

Take for example my parents have a Buick Regal. I have a Passat V6 of the same vintage (1999). My Passat has twice the mileage they are comparable cars in terms of price (when new). However the Passat looks, feels and drives much the same as when new, it now has 85K miles. The Regal with 45K miles looks like it has 145K under it's wheels. The Regals seats are like a used sofa and it has a lot more slop in the way it drives. It's gaps are huge etc...

Now I'm not going to argue the Passat was any more reliable than the Buick, I have had to buy a radiator and it's had oil leaks (fixed under warranty) and once it didn't start and it's control module (?) had to be replaced. So the Passat is not a trouble free car, but even now when used it seems as tight as when new.

I think it's this kind of thing that people don't like about American cars (in general). Hey if it was all about size and power then BMW 3-series would be a bust. The Mini would be a failure, the Civic and Accords would be out classed by Grand-Ams and Regals.

GChambers

My Dad has a 99 C5. It came standard from the factory with the "Squeek and Rattle" package, Recalled seats, HORRIBLE run-flat tires that were loud enough to cause hearing damage and overall mediocre fit, finish and a very sloppy shifter.

Having said that, I do have to admit the car is fun to drive(though not nearly as fun as my S2000) and does get better gas mileage than my S2000.

Anrosphynx

haha.. and you think that road noise is a problem with the C5? when is the last time you were in your S2k? talking abotu road noise.....

rai

QUIKAG

Any of you are more than welcome to come to the DFW metroplex and I will bring the car and myself to you and we'll go for a spirited run. There are NO squeaks and rattles. The car also runs like a raped ape too.

steven975

I'll buy the stanard features, but not the fit/finish. Hard plastic with flash and injector markings, loose feeling knobs/buttons, and big and/or inconsistent panel gaps and the like do not yield better fit/finish...not by a long shot. The base cavalier is a textbook example of all these.