Possible Revamped CR-Z
09-16-2013, 07:50 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Saki GT' timestamp='1379289283' post='22779735
Have you already forgotten the NSX? 
I and many others think Honda was unwise to kill off the S2000. We are also those people who no longer buy Honda products. It's a shame the S is no longer made but at least I and others like me can buy great cars from other automakers. A hot CRZ would be nice, but is competition for other sporty fwd cars. If your are looking for a fun rwd car, you won't be looking at a Honda, which is what the OP link is about.
I and many others think Honda was unwise to kill off the S2000. We are also those people who no longer buy Honda products. It's a shame the S is no longer made but at least I and others like me can buy great cars from other automakers. A hot CRZ would be nice, but is competition for other sporty fwd cars. If your are looking for a fun rwd car, you won't be looking at a Honda, which is what the OP link is about.
I suspect if that's your buying logic you were NEVER a Honda customer to begin with. No offense, but people like you looking for raw RWD cars buy Porches. That company has built a line of cars for all reasonable price points on a great platform.
I love my S2000. We'll buy another Honda/Acura later next fall, then the following year another to replace my current sedan. My family has been buying Honda's for 30+ years now. They don't always need to have a RWD car in production for me to be a Honda customer - they just need to keep building reliable and sensible cars.
When the 2016/2017 NSX model years are available I'll likely snag one of those. Not because there aren't cheaper faster cars for the money but because the NSX is something special in the Honda world.
A CR-Z that is redone to be sportier makes a lot of sense - too mass market. It will never replace or even get close to the design of the S2000.
09-16-2013, 08:08 AM
#22
Now you can have a man-crush on two people.
09-16-2013, 09:52 AM
#23
Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1379340248' post='22780388
[quote name='Saki GT' timestamp='1379289283' post='22779735']
Have you already forgotten the NSX?
I and many others think Honda was unwise to kill off the S2000. We are also those people who no longer buy Honda products. It's a shame the S is no longer made but at least I and others like me can buy great cars from other automakers. A hot CRZ would be nice, but is competition for other sporty fwd cars. If your are looking for a fun rwd car, you won't be looking at a Honda, which is what the OP link is about.
Have you already forgotten the NSX?
I and many others think Honda was unwise to kill off the S2000. We are also those people who no longer buy Honda products. It's a shame the S is no longer made but at least I and others like me can buy great cars from other automakers. A hot CRZ would be nice, but is competition for other sporty fwd cars. If your are looking for a fun rwd car, you won't be looking at a Honda, which is what the OP link is about.
I suspect if that's your buying logic you were NEVER a Honda customer to begin with. No offense, but people like you looking for raw RWD cars buy Porches. That company has built a line of cars for all reasonable price points on a great platform.
I love my S2000. We'll buy another Honda/Acura later next fall, then the following year another to replace my current sedan. My family has been buying Honda's for 30+ years now. They don't always need to have a RWD car in production for me to be a Honda customer - they just need to keep building reliable and sensible cars.
When the 2016/2017 NSX model years are available I'll likely snag one of those. Not because there aren't cheaper faster cars for the money but because the NSX is something special in the Honda world.
A CR-Z that is redone to be sportier makes a lot of sense - too mass market. It will never replace or even get close to the design of the S2000.
[/quote]
Don't follow but Hello.
09-16-2013, 09:56 AM
#24
Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1379340248' post='22780388
I suspect if that's your buying logic you were NEVER a Honda customer to begin with. No offense, but people like you looking for raw RWD cars buy Porches. That company has built a line of cars for all reasonable price points on a great platform.
All things being equal, would I buy a CR-Z+ over a BRZ? No. Would I buy it over a Mini Cooper S? No. Why not? It probably won't be as enjoyable as those other two cars, in several ways. Even the Veloster turbo would probably be more interesting.
Honda builds nice, reliable, good-enough vehicles, but some people want more than that in a car.
So I wanted AWD+TQ+Sedan+Budget mind+reliable. We bought a Subaru Legacy GT Limited. Got a killer deal on it but have $8K into it for repairs. It's far from what it was advertised as and not reliable like the Subaru name would suggest. Upon review, only car I've bought that wasn't a Honda and made the error of trusting all Japanese companies the same, it's plagued with problems.
You're probably better off selecting model/brand every car purchase at a time. For me, I want a more 'one stop shop' experience and why I come back to Honda/Acura. I trust them to build solid cars and when they mess up, like they did with our TL, stand behind the car and make the problems go away - like they did. For 30 years Honda has been doing right by my family, safe, good MPG and solid resale. I'm not sure what I'd really trade off for that.
I mean it's not RACE CAR!
09-16-2013, 10:03 AM
#25
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I like the "anniversary car" comment - that is a perfect description of the S2000. Honda is a profitable company because it can mass produce and sell reliable vehicles at compettive prices in the automotive market. Toyota, VW, GM all have similar business models. It is through the success of the Civics and Accords and their sales that Honda can afford to create a car like the S2000. Consider the millions of dollars that went into the S2000... that only sold ~ 110,000 units over its entire lifecycle. I bet Honda sells 100,000 Civics in less than 6 months in a good year. Selling S2000's is not a profitable business decision - but the "cool" factor is an intangible that cannot be denied.
That Honda has been able to make a grocery getter, such as the Civic, fun and sporty is why Honda is a unique company. Their philosophy over the years has set them apart from the rest of their competitors with cars such as the NSX, Type R's and the S2000 - all of which are niche market vehicles with limited sales. If it werent for the Accords and Civics paying the bills, Honda would not be able to indulge themselves in creating those unique vehicles.
That Honda has been able to make a grocery getter, such as the Civic, fun and sporty is why Honda is a unique company. Their philosophy over the years has set them apart from the rest of their competitors with cars such as the NSX, Type R's and the S2000 - all of which are niche market vehicles with limited sales. If it werent for the Accords and Civics paying the bills, Honda would not be able to indulge themselves in creating those unique vehicles.
09-16-2013, 01:12 PM
#28
Originally Posted by TheDonEffect' timestamp='1379301198' post='22779935
I think Honda burned alot of their fwd faithful. While VW continuted to appease their gti loyalists, and Mini doing a great job offering a car that people actually want, Honda lost its way in that regard. I'm sure Jonboy will chime in with sales data showing that Honda is just fine, but negating the aspect of yes they are selling well, but they forgot about their loyal enthusiasts.
When the CRX came out, toyota was targetting a mid engined rwd car and essentially had a hit. Honda could do the same against the toyobarus, but they I doubt they will. Even in the article honda wants to stick with the hybrid system.
Anyway, too much good competition now, Honda will need to do something from left field to gain interest.
When the CRX came out, toyota was targetting a mid engined rwd car and essentially had a hit. Honda could do the same against the toyobarus, but they I doubt they will. Even in the article honda wants to stick with the hybrid system.
Anyway, too much good competition now, Honda will need to do something from left field to gain interest.
They sponsored F1 because racing is in their blood. But paid for that sponsorship by selling droves of Accords and Civics. Oh the irony of this simple fact
Again, I'm fully aware that Honda is doing just fine, and sales are just fine, and theyre making lots of money, and yadda yadda. I'm just point out the simple fact that Honda is seemingly incapable of making a competitive sporty vehicle in this arms race era. And that's fine, unlike a lot of honda fanbois, I have no real brand allegiance, my only allegiance is to great cars that speak to me.
So in the end, there is core group of loyal enthusiasts that Honda is neglecting in the pursuit of being conservative and making profit. Nothing wrong with that per se, but that's jsut an excuse for this primary point: Honda forgot about their enthusiasts and is incapable of making a competitive sporty car.
The NSX came out when Ferrari had an aging model. The S2000 came out when the Z3 and Boxster weren't great yet, now that they are, no more S2000. The integra and prelude for the most part had more power and out performed everything in their segment, then the wrx, ms3, mazdaspeed3, etc etc all came out, now we have the Si.
So we'll see if this new CRZ can finally bring a competitive car that speaks to enthusiasts and sway people from the GTI, mini, etc, or will they just try to carve out another small niche and try to answer a question that no one answered. Yeah, hybrid folks really think to themselves, sigh, this prius is great, but I wish I could shift my own gears and not be that much faster than a fit. Hey, if the the new crz hybrid type r comes out and delivers 50mpg and goes to 60 in the 5s and handles like a brz, then heck yeah. But the BRZ has 200hp and owners have flirted with 40mpg, so if Honda comes out with a hybrid that achieves marginally better mpg and same performance, why would enthusiasts want it?
Meh, whatever, I'll reserve judgement until it comes out as I'm sure Jonboy has some Honda corporate response to all of this.
09-16-2013, 01:33 PM
#29
So true. The K series motors are jewels if a bit outdated now. And while it may not win over the hearts of the rwd centric crowd, it will have its own following, but more importantly, will give something to the honda faithful they can be proud of. And give it 20 years when a low mileage example comes up and the asking price is the same as it was new. That kind of aura is what keeps brands relevent when all other things are equal, but hey, what do I know, Honda continues to hit homeruns with everything they come out with and never had a misstep.
09-16-2013, 03:29 PM
#30
I like the "anniversary car" comment - that is a perfect description of the S2000. Honda is a profitable company because it can mass produce and sell reliable vehicles at compettive prices in the automotive market. Toyota, VW, GM all have similar business models. It is through the success of the Civics and Accords and their sales that Honda can afford to create a car like the S2000. Consider the millions of dollars that went into the S2000... that only sold ~ 110,000 units over its entire lifecycle. I bet Honda sells 100,000 Civics in less than 6 months in a good year. Selling S2000's is not a profitable business decision - but the "cool" factor is an intangible that cannot be denied.
That Honda has been able to make a grocery getter, such as the Civic, fun and sporty is why Honda is a unique company. Their philosophy over the years has set them apart from the rest of their competitors with cars such as the NSX, Type R's and the S2000 - all of which are niche market vehicles with limited sales. If it werent for the Accords and Civics paying the bills, Honda would not be able to indulge themselves in creating those unique vehicles.
That Honda has been able to make a grocery getter, such as the Civic, fun and sporty is why Honda is a unique company. Their philosophy over the years has set them apart from the rest of their competitors with cars such as the NSX, Type R's and the S2000 - all of which are niche market vehicles with limited sales. If it werent for the Accords and Civics paying the bills, Honda would not be able to indulge themselves in creating those unique vehicles.