JonBoy

Feelings lie. Numbers don't. The Civic HF is a slushbox and slower than the 5MT Civic. The 6DCT is comparable to a manual transmission, hence why I compared it to the 5MT Civic, which showed the Civic to be just as quick.

So, sure, pick whatever works for you. Just because a car FEELS faster/easier doesn't mean it IS faster/easier. The numbers say the 140 hp Jetta is roughly as quick (give or take - depends on the speed range) as a 140 hp Civic. Which is the main point - equal power cars accelerate at roughly equal rates (overall).

I'm done.

arsenal

Nothing to do with weight right ?

zerocool602

Correct, the last time I had this much fun reading a thread was back when the brz debuted and all of the GTR comparison threads were going. The turbo on the CRZ will definitely give Honda some torque, which they have never really had. No argument there... most Honda ethusiasts have a turbo/SC at the top of their wish list. Torque is fun and really changes the feel of the car and driving experience.

The experience is what it really comes down to. I purchased the S2000 for the high end power and redline, it's a fun experience for me. But it's not the modt practical for the daily grind. I'm just as big a fan of Honda as JonBoy ... I think we all are or we wouldn't be on this site posting. But the GTI to CRZ/Civic comparison isn't a good one, (NA vs FI). A turbo completely changes the torque vs rpm curve of an engine. VTEC flattens the curve on the upper end whereas the turbo shifts the entire curve up. It's hard to compare the two. When done right, a turbo setup will outperform an NA under most situations. Lets see how the turbo CRZ stacks up against the GTI and other similar cars. My gut feeling is that Honda's first attempt will probably be so-so... they have very little experience with commercial turbo offerings. It may take them some time to get it right.

TheDonEffect

I wonder who started the name calling...

TheDonEffect

At the track, with same hp and power band, and all other things equal, I'll take the car with better low end torque with a flat torque curve.
The dumptruck argument is somewhat valid, but throw that behemoth motor into a civic and that little car will fly. Also, gearing has a lot to do with how torque is taken advantage of.
In any rate, with all this torque talk, has any of this sway the judgement of Honda does not make any exciting vehicles today? Nope. I hear you Jonboy, but but we make the best midsize family sedan and CUV, and a darn good minivan, the other Prius. And isn't that what we're essentially talking about with this new revamped CRZ? May be too little too late? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

JonBoy

Nope, you're not wrong there. I'd actually say the Accord V6 is their most "exciting" vehicle and that's mainly because it's a sub-6s family sedan for under $30K, not because it's all that exciting in the big picture.

TheDonEffect

Interesting, and not the CRZ? When you say that their v6 midsize fwd family sedan is their most exciting car... yeah enough said.

Saki GT

The Accord V6 is MUCH more fun to drive than a CR-Z. The Accord can at least pass for a GT, the CR-Z is in my opinion a featherweight Civic that lacks punch.

When you look at a car like the Accord coupe, it really makes you wonder how great a sports car Honda could make if they put the time into a rwd car.