XtC-604

Not quite. Correct me if i'm wrong, but what you're basically trying to say is that Honda only makes a halo car to target something, but no particulars.

What i'm trying to say is that it's a disgrace if they were to not target Ferrari like last time and still tag an NSX nameplate on it.
But i again i may have missed that part somewhere in your writing; as i am very tired :S

Mr.E.G.

No, no, I'm saying that they're targeting the Audi R8, et all and that's probably good enough. If they take on the 458 and best it, that's freaking awesome. But considering that no one has been able to beat the 458 I don't see why we feel the need to hold Honda to a different standard. I don't understand this burden that we're arbitrarily placing on the new NSX to beat what is arguably the fastest car in the world. We don't collectively complain that the R8 is a failure because it can't beat a 458. Nor the McLaren. I'm merely stating that the NSX's hardware WILL put it modern supercar territory and that just because it can't a 458 that doesn't mean it won't still be considered a supercar. However, you're more pessimistic and you seem to think it will be picking up the rear. I just don't see that as being a strong possibility for all the reasons I listed.

cbehney

I'm curious why you think it probably will only be moderately faster than a TL. Not saying I think you're wrong, since I don't know the wgt, HP, etc., but I'm curious how you got there.

XtC-604

Couple of things really:
I took a look into a few cars: Ferrari F458, TL SH-AWD, Last Gen NSX
F458 has a curb weight of 3,274lb, using an all aluminum space frame and outer skin. Doesn't have AWD or hybrid batteries. Built to be a hardcore track carving biatch

TL SH-AWD. Curb weight of 3,994lb, using a steel chassis, has the SH-AWD system, V6 powered. Now whats important here: Honda will most likely use some derived version of the J37A4 found in the TL in the new NSX. Now assuming Honda Still has their old engine magic. Lets assume a 120hp/L theory, and assume 3.7L in displacement (Which i highly doubt will happen, in fact i can see it being a 3.5L, + you can't really stroke out this engine anymore, maybe an extra .1L) Which means 444HP from engine and i'd say roughly 30-40 hp from the electric motors? TOTAL GUESSTIMATE HP: 474-484?

Last Gen NSX: why did i add this into my comparison? For weight purposes really. Now the old NSX had a purpose built chassis, meant for one specific platform. Now its not confirmed yet, but there was press about it going to be developed on a modified accord platform. *Think weight, think reinforcements that are added on*
The last NSX weighed ~3000lbs depending on configuration with on front airbags, no traction control, no advanced sound system or any of those electric hybridy parts

In conclusion i can't see this car weighing less than the F458 with its drive train and batteries. I would guess that the new car would weigh around ~3500-3700lb. The way i obtained that number is assuming that all the hybrid stuff will add ~200lbs compared to the F458. So a car that is 3500-3700lbs with marginally more power isn't going to be that much faster than a TL...i can only see the NSX pulling hard on a standing start...

JonBoy

For starters, pretty much every as-tested weight for the F458 has been 3400+ lbs with many over the 3500 lb mark so it's still pretty heavy for what it is (a Porsche 911 GT3 is quite a bit lighter, for instance).

Second, the TL is a four-door sedan with an extra couple feet tacked onto it and costs at least 1/3 to 1/4 what the new NSX will probably cost. That's a lot of spare money to put into lighter weight components and exotic materials.

Thirdly, the motors in the MDX already add up to 97 hp and the NSX will have at least that much power from the electric motors (possibly more). The engine peak and motor peak don't coincide so you usually only get about 55-60% of peak electric power to add to the gas engine peak power, which means right around 55 to 60 hp. However, you get a ton of torque down low, something the F458 doesn't really have (nor AWD for launch traction, not that it's a slow car off the line or anything).

So, from your numbers, 500 hp seems possible. It's then down to weight, which will partially depend on overall size. The new NSX dimensions are tiny, well short of the F458.

New NSX
Wheel Base: 101.4"
Length: 170.5"
Width: 74.6"
Height: 45.7"

F458
Wheelbase: 104.3" (2.9" longer)
Length: 178.2" (7.7" longer)
Width: 76.3" (1.7" wider)
Height: 47.8" (2.1" taller)

Is that enough to make up for some electric motors? We'll see. However, given Honda's use of aluminum in the original NSX, I'd expect this car to use some more of that magic (the old NSX chassis is still an engineering marvel and extremely light, even compared to today's cars) PLUS carbon fiber or magnesium alloys to boot.

Honda's CEO has specifically stated that this car will compete by a favorable power-to-weight ratio. That means that either a) it's competing against lower priced cars that weigh more (Nissan GT-R, for instance) or else b) it's still quite light compared to the competition.

Given the price tag expectancy of $150K (we'll see), I think b) is the more likely choice. It'll take some hard core engineering, that's for sure, but we'll have to wait for the final product to see what they really meant.

XtC-604

^ one big issue, the more powerful the electric motors are, the more heavy it's gonna be. Secondly all those weight figures were pulled from manufacturer's literature.
Lastly, length and wheelbase of the vehicle aren't significant weight adders when the difference is 7", maybe a few extra pounds. And mind you the new nsx "specs" aren't solid yet. Now one thing i don't doubt you on is the use of carbon fiber or magnesium alloys, but by the looks of which market segment honda is trying to compete in, i can't see extensive use of those materials. Maybe a bit of CF, but the magnesium not so much.

As for the market its competing in, I don't think that at $150k its going to be a very successful competitor compared to the GT-R at $90k...specially when the GT-R is already track proven, can make power easily. But the main problem here is that stupid hybrid drive train, adds so much weight to the car. I can see the car being up to 350lbs lighter without it. Sigh...could you imagine? an NSX with a 3.8L V6 with 130HP/L engine, taking back that crown from Ferrari. 494BHP, with a slightly lighter weight car than Ferrari's and we've got a winner!

xoz

Haha leno!! Great advert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUFSHzT2xuY&sns=em

luder_5555

I'll have whatever he's having... Cause Honda is going to get another 44hp out of their 3.8l V6 than Porsche gets out of the current GT3rs...

Assuming that Honda was more interested in power and performance than making a cutting edge hybrid, the only way that they would be competitive at a reasonable price would be with turbocharging it. Or they could go the route that Lexus took, and make a bespoke V10/12 and charge more than double what anyone else does at that performance level.

But trying to seriously suggest that they break the production record for hp/L is a little silly. Especially with a V6.

XtC-604

Nothing's wrong with dreaming, and besides Honda does have the know how in extracting the most power out of every engine.
I mean ffs, Honda did 122.5hp/l in the JDM s2000 without ITBS, without 3inch exhausts, without a direct ram air intake. How hard could it of been. Surely if Honda did those from factory the S2000 would be already at 130hp/L

Elistan

Couple of things really:
I took a look into a few cars: Ferrari F458, TL SH-AWD, Last Gen NSX
F458 has a curb weight of 3,274lb, using an all aluminum space frame and outer skin. Doesn't have AWD or hybrid batteries. Built to be a hardcore track carving biatch

TL SH-AWD. Curb weight of 3,994lb, using a steel chassis, has the SH-AWD system, V6 powered. Now whats important here: Honda will most likely use some derived version of the J37A4 found in the TL in the new NSX. Now assuming Honda Still has their old engine magic. Lets assume a 120hp/L theory, and assume 3.7L in displacement (Which i highly doubt will happen, in fact i can see it being a 3.5L, + you can't really stroke out this engine anymore, maybe an extra .1L) Which means 444HP from engine and i'd say roughly 30-40 hp from the electric motors? TOTAL GUESSTIMATE HP: 474-484?

Last Gen NSX: why did i add this into my comparison? For weight purposes really. Now the old NSX had a purpose built chassis, meant for one specific platform. Now its not confirmed yet, but there was press about it going to be developed on a modified accord platform. *Think weight, think reinforcements that are added on*
The last NSX weighed ~3000lbs depending on configuration with on front airbags, no traction control, no advanced sound system or any of those electric hybridy parts

In conclusion i can't see this car weighing less than the F458 with its drive train and batteries. I would guess that the new car would weigh around ~3500-3700lb. The way i obtained that number is assuming that all the hybrid stuff will add ~200lbs compared to the F458. So a car that is 3500-3700lbs with marginally more power isn't going to be that much faster than a TL...i can only see the NSX pulling hard on a standing start...
[/quote]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "only going to be moderately faster." The TL at 3994 lbs and 305 hp carries 13.1 lbs per hp.
The NSX Concept at an estimated 3500 lbs and 484 hp would carry 7.2 lbs/hp. At 3700 lbs and 474 hp, it'd be 7.8 lbs/hp.
To compare, a 2010 C6 Corvette coupe at 3208 lbs and 430 hp has 7.5 lbs per hp.

So the NSX Concept is only "moderately" faster than a TL in exactly the same way that a C6 Corvette is only moderately faster than a TL. Which is to say, it'd totally blow it out of the water.