NSX Unveiling in 4 Hours
01-12-2012, 10:31 AM
#191
Moderator
Originally Posted by Gigdy' timestamp='1326293428' post='21306354
Because CR-Z
It was meant to be more of a sporty Insight coupe. Perhaps you would also like to make a wager? How about this? If this car will turn out to be slower than the $30K Mustang GT (or M3), I'd stop working out forever? 
01-12-2012, 12:21 PM
#192
You've obviously mixed up what the "public" (internet forums) WANTED from Honda with what Honda actually said they would provide.
01-12-2012, 12:39 PM
#193
Originally Posted by Gigdy' timestamp='1326396688' post='21310868
They promoted it as a a successor to the crx and a sports car. It failed in both those respects.
You've obviously mixed up what the "public" (internet forums) WANTED from Honda with what Honda actually said they would provide.
01-12-2012, 12:55 PM
#194
Registered User
I dunno if I'd call it "great pains" - Honda didn't issue any official press releases saying "this is not a CRX replacement" or anything - but there are plenty of news reports of Takashi Nagura, lead CR-Z designer, making statements to the press such as this one: "[the CR-Z is] not a homage to it [the CRX]. We thought about the CR-X while designing this car, but that was a sports car. This is not a pure sports car."
01-12-2012, 01:17 PM
#195
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1326403315' post='21311425
[quote name='Gigdy' timestamp='1326396688' post='21310868']
They promoted it as a a successor to the crx and a sports car. It failed in both those respects.
They promoted it as a a successor to the crx and a sports car. It failed in both those respects.
You've obviously mixed up what the "public" (internet forums) WANTED from Honda with what Honda actually said they would provide.
[/quote]
Tell you what - go find me one place where the CEO of Honda or the VP of American Honda (John Mendel) ever said this was a CRX successor. EVERY instance has been started by the media, not Honda. I've watched their addresses at the major auto shows and read their interviews - they never mention that it is a CRX successor and, at times, point out that it has a different layout, different purpose and different audience. The CRX was focused on people with low budgets with a sporty intent. It was right at the bottom of the Honda food chain. The CR-Z is positioned higher (the Fit and Civic fit below), offers four seats (everywhere else in the world) and is much more stylish with a lot more standard options.
John Mendel talked ONCE about the CRX and how it was an icon for Honda in the USA especially. At no time did he ever say that the CR-Z was its successor. Honda's CEO also never mentioned it. It's just a natural progression for most people to remove the "X", add the "-Z" and go from there. It sounds the same, it looks the same, therefore it must be the successor.
Except it isn't and Honda never said it would be. You will not find a single mention of the CRX in any Honda news release or documentation or slideshow on the CR-Z. Unlike the new NSX, where they draw parallels to the old car and how it will have a similar effect on the sports car world that the NSX did back in 1990. Honda uses its heritage at times, when it makes sense, but the CRX wasn't one that was linked to the CR-Z by anyone but the media and people on the internet.
01-12-2012, 01:19 PM
#196
Originally Posted by sparrow' timestamp='1326404353' post='21311504
You always say this but I genuinely want to know exactly how Honda went through great pains to make that perfectly clear.
And again, compare that with what they're doing with the new NSX (same name, same intent, etc, etc) and that is also "painfully obvious" to me that they did no such thing with the CR-Z. No ads and no releases to point back to the CRX. The CR-Z was meant to stand on its own.
01-12-2012, 02:09 PM
#197
Moderator
I remember reading this from Honda:
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/18...c-51004c34b9f1
Honda also published CR-Z specs in line with 1985 and 1991 CRX Si models, which I thought was because Honda was showcasing the CR-Z against what the CRX was.
Honda CRX Heritage
The exterior design of CR-Z deliberately evokes the iconic style of the 1980s and 1990s Honda CRX, which was originally developed to provide a small, stylish car that could achieve excellent fuel economy. Signature features of the CRX, like the split-level rear glass hatch of the second generation model and the low, shallow raked roofline have been referenced in the design of the sleek coupe and then combined with a curvaceous and deeply sculpted exterior form.
The exterior design of CR-Z deliberately evokes the iconic style of the 1980s and 1990s Honda CRX, which was originally developed to provide a small, stylish car that could achieve excellent fuel economy. Signature features of the CRX, like the split-level rear glass hatch of the second generation model and the low, shallow raked roofline have been referenced in the design of the sleek coupe and then combined with a curvaceous and deeply sculpted exterior form.
Honda also published CR-Z specs in line with 1985 and 1991 CRX Si models, which I thought was because Honda was showcasing the CR-Z against what the CRX was.
01-12-2012, 02:44 PM
#198
Honda NEVER promoted the CR-Z as a SPORTS CAR. They always claimed it would be a sporty hybrid. They damn knew a sports car wouldn't have had so little power and FWD. They wanted to make a sporty little hybrid coupe, and so they did. It's more fun to drive than many of its competitors (read the MotorTrend comparo), albeit it's slow (but still faster than the Hyundai Veloster).
Now, Honda is promoting this car as its new halo supercar and so they're gonna work on it carefully. But by the time it comes out, all other suprecars will have had electric motors aid-driving the wheels already.
) I thought they'd begin production next year.
They always claimed it would be a sporty hybrid. They damn knew a sports car wouldn't have had so little power and FWD. They wanted to make a sporty little hybrid coupe, and so they did. It's more fun to drive than many of its competitors (read the MotorTrend comparo), albeit it's slow (but still faster than the Hyundai Veloster). Now, Honda is promoting this car as its new halo supercar and so they're gonna work on it carefully. But by the time it comes out, all other suprecars will have had electric motors aid-driving the wheels already.
) I thought they'd begin production next year.
01-12-2012, 02:45 PM
#199
I remember reading this from Honda:
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/18...c-51004c34b9f1
Honda also published CR-Z specs in line with 1985 and 1991 CRX Si models, which I thought was because Honda was showcasing the CR-Z against what the CRX was.
Honda CRX Heritage
The exterior design of CR-Z deliberately evokes the iconic style of the 1980s and 1990s Honda CRX, which was originally developed to provide a small, stylish car that could achieve excellent fuel economy. Signature features of the CRX, like the split-level rear glass hatch of the second generation model and the low, shallow raked roofline have been referenced in the design of the sleek coupe and then combined with a curvaceous and deeply sculpted exterior form.
The exterior design of CR-Z deliberately evokes the iconic style of the 1980s and 1990s Honda CRX, which was originally developed to provide a small, stylish car that could achieve excellent fuel economy. Signature features of the CRX, like the split-level rear glass hatch of the second generation model and the low, shallow raked roofline have been referenced in the design of the sleek coupe and then combined with a curvaceous and deeply sculpted exterior form.
Honda also published CR-Z specs in line with 1985 and 1991 CRX Si models, which I thought was because Honda was showcasing the CR-Z against what the CRX was.
Reading the rest of the link, you'll see comments like this:
The progressively raked roofline and sharply truncated tail of the CR-Z is a feature shared with many Hondas past and present, including the CRX, first-generation Insight and the FCX Clarity.
Regardless, I stand by my point - Honda never claimed it was a CRX successor (anywhere). As I mentioned before, there are elements that are similar but it wasn't meant as a replacement or successor.
01-12-2012, 04:27 PM
#200
Originally Posted by sparrow' timestamp='1326404353' post='21311504
[quote name='JonBoy' timestamp='1326403315' post='21311425']
[quote name='Gigdy' timestamp='1326396688' post='21310868']
They promoted it as a a successor to the crx and a sports car. It failed in both those respects.
[quote name='Gigdy' timestamp='1326396688' post='21310868']
They promoted it as a a successor to the crx and a sports car. It failed in both those respects.
You've obviously mixed up what the "public" (internet forums) WANTED from Honda with what Honda actually said they would provide.
[/quote]
Tell you what - go find me one place where the CEO of Honda or the VP of American Honda (John Mendel) ever said this was a CRX successor. EVERY instance has been started by the media, not Honda. I've watched their addresses at the major auto shows and read their interviews - they never mention that it is a CRX successor and, at times, point out that it has a different layout, different purpose and different audience. The CRX was focused on people with low budgets with a sporty intent. It was right at the bottom of the Honda food chain. The CR-Z is positioned higher (the Fit and Civic fit below), offers four seats (everywhere else in the world) and is much more stylish with a lot more standard options.
John Mendel talked ONCE about the CRX and how it was an icon for Honda in the USA especially. At no time did he ever say that the CR-Z was its successor. Honda's CEO also never mentioned it. It's just a natural progression for most people to remove the "X", add the "-Z" and go from there. It sounds the same, it looks the same, therefore it must be the successor.
Except it isn't and Honda never said it would be. You will not find a single mention of the CRX in any Honda news release or documentation or slideshow on the CR-Z. Unlike the new NSX, where they draw parallels to the old car and how it will have a similar effect on the sports car world that the NSX did back in 1990. Honda uses its heritage at times, when it makes sense, but the CRX wasn't one that was linked to the CR-Z by anyone but the media and people on the internet.
[/quote]
Tell you what-go find me one post where i claimed that honda says the crz was a successor to the crx. The burden of proof for your position is your responsibility. You said they endured "great pains" to establish it was not a successor. Ok then show me what these "great pains" were is all I'm asking. You are simply overstating their position. Honda went to minimal lengths to distance the crz from crx. I dont care about the crz or its heritage if any, I was just interested in hearing what these "great pains" were.