Kodokan_4

Simple answer:

You need to downshift BEFORE the turn, or you will have no engine braking to help slow you down.

Shark

Reading some of these posts exemplifies how many people don't know how to drive this car at its limits and why there are so many accidents involving S2000's.

Like a moron, I once let off the gas (by instinct) when I went into a turn too hot (when I had my S2000) and the ass-end swung around quicker than a hooker asks for cash on South Street. Luckily, I was able to regain control and avoid damage to the car. This taught me a powerful lesson about not upsetting the balance of a car while changing direction.

Before I buy my next S2000, I'm going to seek some level of professional driver's training. I feel that such training is necessary for novices like myself and should always be a prerequisite for owning a high-performance vehicle.

For those of you with professional training, please recommend books or videos that would help novices like myself become better drivers.

~::{o0S2k0o}::~

Hey im a new member, im not an owner but i will be when im 18. Anways, if you are an aggressive driver, you should downshift b4 the turn that way you are at a higher RPM level where it is easier to get the tires spinning with a touch of the gas, also called a drift. If you dont want to drift, you could just use your brakes, or just downshift but not use any gas.

Nelson

Advanced Drivers over here get taught not to use engine braking, and always use the brakes.

w1ngman

Well, I voted "before a turn" as that has always been my habit. I did it with motorcycles, and I've always done it [in the past] with automobiles. I do not profess that downshifting before a turn is correct...only that it is the manner in which I've always approached turns [in the past]. While downshifting, I've always simultaneously applied as much brake before the turn as necessary to approach the turn in a controlled manner. My view on downshifting prior to a turn has been [and I would still contend] that it allows me preparatory application of power through the approaching turn during my deceleration and then to be in the appropriate gear through the apex of the turn and then again to progress out of the turn through the same power band.

If you've noticed...however...I've made comments such as "in the past".... I am the recent benefactor of a new rear OEM differential for The Bruised Banana. At 38,500 miles, and just outside of my standard factory warranty, my diff blew. Was it a defect in the diff? Was it a result of my driving habits above? No one will say...and outside of warranty, Honda [at least] agreed to cover half of the cost of a new diff. My half was $1800 just as an FYI to folks.

I expect I'll try to rely more on this automobile's braking system as I approach turns. This is a habit I will need to change in my driving style and belief...but IMO, better to replace brake pads than rear diffs. I have been [and continue] looking into proper driving techniques and I welcome the opportunities that this community allows me to compare notes. I also look forward to attending professional driving schools over the next year to have experienced drivers critique my driving skills. My skills are good IMO...but they are also novice -- and by that I mean that I'm good at what I do, but I've never been taught...simply a matter of instinct. As such, that instinct may or may not be "good" instinct...and I'm humble enough to admit that.

For what its worth, below is perhaps some appropriate information offered from War Bonnet Region Porsche Club of America. It makes advised reference to all inputs related to an impending turn (braking, downshifting, cornering, and ultimately exiting). For those interested, I've also included their brief explanation of over- and understeer.:

Braking is done before you enter a turn, while still going relatively straight. The key to braking is to brake with a little jab then apply the brakes in ernest. The jab transfers the weight to the front wheels. If you jab too hard you will lock the front brakes as you jab. If you jab to softly you will lock the front brakes as you brake harder. When practicing braking technique on the street, always check the mirrors first. That car in the mirror will probably not be able to stop as quickly as a Porsche.

Braking is also the time for downshifting to the proper gear for the corner. In fact all downshifting is done during braking. When braking, brake with the middle of the ball of your foot on the right edge of the brake pedal, and heel firmly planted on the floorboard. It will feel like you are braking with the ball of your big toe. As you slow, push in the clutch while moving the shift lever to neutral. Roll the right side of your foot down and blip the gas pedal. As the rpm goes up, move the shifter to the next lower gear and release the clutch smoothly. The idea is to match the engine rpm to the lower gear and car speed before letting out the clutch. It takes a lot of practice to get timing and smoothness down. When you get it right you will notice how it goes into gear a lot smoother and faster. Practice the pedal action first in your garage with the engine off to get the feel. When you first try it on the street, you might want to find a deserted street or parking lot! To much or too little thottle blip will cause the rear wheels to break loose. It will also take a little practice to keep braking smoothly as you blip the throttle. The neat thing is once you get the hang of it, you can practice downshifting any time you drive your car.

Cornering is choosing a line and managing weight transfer. Choosing a line is making the turns larger by entering on the outside edge, turning to the inside edge and exiting twoards the outside edge. The cones are guides and don't necessarily mark the beginning, middle or end of a turn. Managing weight transfer amounts to starting the turn-in as you smoothly left off the brakes. This gives the front tires more grip by using the weight already on the front from braking. After letting off the brakes move to the throttle and slowly apply just enough throttle to maintain speed through the middle of the turn. This transfers the weight to the cars balanced position with most of the weight on the outside tires. Just before you start to straighten the wheel smoothly go to full throttle. This transfers the weight to the rear for acceleration. As you go through a turn, feel the weight transfer smoothly from the front during braking to the side as you enter the turn, then to the rear as you exit. Practice, practice, practice, and remember smoothness is the key.

There are two things that will happen in the corners that slow you down. Understeer and Oversteer.

Understeer, also called pushing or plowing, is the most common for first time drivers. Understeer is when you apply the gas in a corner and the front of the car starts sliding straight. It is caused by accelerating too much to early in the corner. To stop the sliding, let off the throttle and straighten the wheel a little until the front tires stop sliding. You may even need to add a little brake, very smoothly as you straighten the wheel. Once the sliding stops you can turn back in and finish the corner at a slower speed.

Oversteer, also called getting loose. There are two types of oversteer, power oversteer and simple oversteer. The most common and considered a lot of fun for new and experienced drivers alike is power oversteer. Power oversteer is when you get on the gas too quickly with a lot of power, the rear tries spin and the rear comes around because there is not enough weight on the rear for traction. Since you can't let off the brakes or add throttle to add weight to the rear, just steer into the skid and try to smoothly and slowly give a little less gas, but don't lift off the throttle too much or you will enduce simple oversteer and spin out before you can correct it. Simple oversteer is when you turn in for a corner too fast without letting off the brakes enough or lift the throttle to quickly while turning and the rear comes around. This happens because there is not enough weight on the rear tires to hold the turn. Steer towards the skid, let off the brakes, and add a little throttle, but not too much throttle or you will enduce power oversteer.

Bieg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kodokan_4
[B]Simple answer:

Bieg

The Skip Barber "Going Faster" book and video are very good. Bob Boundurant's book on high performance driving is also good.

If you can get to a Skip Barber course it is worth the time and money.

Bieg

w1ngman,

Only thing I see with the Porsche article (other than their pretentious opinion that nothing can stop as quick as a Porsche) is that they are not describing a double clutch downshift. If you are going to go through the trouble of a Heel-Toe downshift you might as well go all the way and double-clutch.

Kodokan_4

The "engine braking" that I am speaking of is not something that I am trying to do. It seems to occur naturally when I heel/toe downshift.

For example, I take the same corner almost every day. A couple of times I missed my shift, and went into fifth, instead of third. I was still on the brakes, going into the corner, and my car went wide both times.

My shift timing feels right to me, my transitions are balanced, but perhaps I'm letting out the clutch too early, instead of braking harder.

Or perhaps my rev-matching is slightly low. I know if it's a little high, the car will lurch. It's so damn sensitive in the upper VTEC range.

Should I feel NO engine braking when slowing? Any thoughts or advice?

Bieg

Depends on what type of driving you are doing. If you are driving in enough of a spirited fashion to be Heel-Toeing into the corners then the only engine braking you should be feeling is up to the point where you first depress the clutch pedal. From that point on you are (hopefully) rev matching perfectly for the road speed (so no engine braking to upset the ballance of the car) and releasing the clutch smoothly to accelerate through and out of the corner. Point is when you release the clutch in performance driving you should be on the gas also. That pretty much eliminates engine braking from the equation.