New 2012 Civic Lineup on Honda website
04-25-2011, 01:36 PM
#41
You however Wolf, seem to express my same opinion, there is a lot of Honda fans that are not happy with the current Honda trend
And I believe there are not going to be enough new buyers going into the Honda fold, and Honda will continue to see declining sales figures until they hit rock bottom and then Honda is going to stand up, cluelessly and ask, how did we get here?
I work with lots of younger people, over and over I'm exposed to the point of view that they are looking at Kia and Hyundai, because A- they are young and don't have pre-conceived notions of these brands when they were nothing like they are today, B- they don't even consider Honda because too many older people have them and they don't like the lack of cool, C- Hyundai and Kia are speaking their language, and they are listening
My Mother bought a 2011 Kia Sorento just recently
There was some confusion and concern over exactly what was included in the Tow Package option
Calls were made to Hyundai and the dealer also looking into it, and the information was not consistent
We moved ahead with the purchase because I knew I could get it resolved (and we did easily)
But, the key is, during this process, Hyundai sent my Mom a $100 Visa card for her inconvenience
Oh yea, like Honda would do that...
And I believe there are not going to be enough new buyers going into the Honda fold, and Honda will continue to see declining sales figures until they hit rock bottom and then Honda is going to stand up, cluelessly and ask, how did we get here?
I work with lots of younger people, over and over I'm exposed to the point of view that they are looking at Kia and Hyundai, because A- they are young and don't have pre-conceived notions of these brands when they were nothing like they are today, B- they don't even consider Honda because too many older people have them and they don't like the lack of cool, C- Hyundai and Kia are speaking their language, and they are listening
My Mother bought a 2011 Kia Sorento just recently
There was some confusion and concern over exactly what was included in the Tow Package option
Calls were made to Hyundai and the dealer also looking into it, and the information was not consistent
We moved ahead with the purchase because I knew I could get it resolved (and we did easily)
But, the key is, during this process, Hyundai sent my Mom a $100 Visa card for her inconvenience
Oh yea, like Honda would do that...
Give these new models three years and we'll see how resale, reliability and style are holding up. That's going to decide a lot more than a temporary spike in sales or demand based on poor supply or initial hype.
I'll be the first to admit that Kia (for instance) has amazingly improved their designs, as has Hyundai (the Genesis Coupe and Sedan are very nice to my eye). However, I'm more worried about Ford and their combination of improved design, new powertrains and high content spec for their vehicles (despite the fact that they are consistently quite a bit heavier than Honda). Ford is also doing it without their federal government giving them a competitive dollar advantage through subsidies, which is more than can be said for Hyundai right now.
04-25-2011, 01:51 PM
#42
Jonboy,
I don't think anyone would argue that Honda still has some good engineers/engineering in its products (hitting 39mpg highway w/o DI and a 6spd AT is good). However, I'd say it's certainly fading, their designs are getting a little "stale," and there's a lack of "innovation." I think that about sums it up. Hondas are certainly not "bad" cars, but their overall quality/lead has certainly fallen amongst competitors.
In terms of building "fun" cars, I think they're just devolving in that regard. Design wise, hondas are generally always ugly (to a degree), but the Camry rear end of the civic is just hideous. I do agree that DI and some of these newer 6AT transmissions have their issues, and aren't tried and true tested designs, so perhaps ppl will stick with honda, but hondas competitors have nearly closed the gap. If I wanted a civic or comparable car at this point, I'd probably opt to pickup a used previous gen model civic ('06-'11). I'll have to read up on other mfr's and how DI is holding up after time.. I certainly understand the issues with carbon build up for DI, and understand WHY honda made the decision they did.. but I'd think they could be a little more competitive price wise then if they're just rehashing old designs/engines..
I don't think anyone would argue that Honda still has some good engineers/engineering in its products (hitting 39mpg highway w/o DI and a 6spd AT is good). However, I'd say it's certainly fading, their designs are getting a little "stale," and there's a lack of "innovation." I think that about sums it up. Hondas are certainly not "bad" cars, but their overall quality/lead has certainly fallen amongst competitors.
In terms of building "fun" cars, I think they're just devolving in that regard. Design wise, hondas are generally always ugly (to a degree), but the Camry rear end of the civic is just hideous. I do agree that DI and some of these newer 6AT transmissions have their issues, and aren't tried and true tested designs, so perhaps ppl will stick with honda, but hondas competitors have nearly closed the gap. If I wanted a civic or comparable car at this point, I'd probably opt to pickup a used previous gen model civic ('06-'11). I'll have to read up on other mfr's and how DI is holding up after time.. I certainly understand the issues with carbon build up for DI, and understand WHY honda made the decision they did.. but I'd think they could be a little more competitive price wise then if they're just rehashing old designs/engines..
04-25-2011, 02:10 PM
#44
Jonboy,
I don't think anyone would argue that Honda still has some good engineers/engineering in its products (hitting 39mpg highway w/o DI and a 6spd AT is good). However, I'd say it's certainly fading, their designs are getting a little "stale," and there's a lack of "innovation." I think that about sums it up. Hondas are certainly not "bad" cars, but their overall quality/lead has certainly fallen amongst competitors.
In terms of building "fun" cars, I think they're just devolving in that regard. Design wise, hondas are generally always ugly (to a degree), but the Camry rear end of the civic is just hideous. I do agree that DI and some of these newer 6AT transmissions have their issues, and aren't tried and true tested designs, so perhaps ppl will stick with honda, but hondas competitors have nearly closed the gap. If I wanted a civic or comparable car at this point, I'd probably opt to pickup a used previous gen model civic ('06-'11). I'll have to read up on other mfr's and how DI is holding up after time.. I certainly understand the issues with carbon build up for DI, and understand WHY honda made the decision they did.. but I'd think they could be a little more competitive price wise then if they're just rehashing old designs/engines..
I don't think anyone would argue that Honda still has some good engineers/engineering in its products (hitting 39mpg highway w/o DI and a 6spd AT is good). However, I'd say it's certainly fading, their designs are getting a little "stale," and there's a lack of "innovation." I think that about sums it up. Hondas are certainly not "bad" cars, but their overall quality/lead has certainly fallen amongst competitors.
In terms of building "fun" cars, I think they're just devolving in that regard. Design wise, hondas are generally always ugly (to a degree), but the Camry rear end of the civic is just hideous. I do agree that DI and some of these newer 6AT transmissions have their issues, and aren't tried and true tested designs, so perhaps ppl will stick with honda, but hondas competitors have nearly closed the gap. If I wanted a civic or comparable car at this point, I'd probably opt to pickup a used previous gen model civic ('06-'11). I'll have to read up on other mfr's and how DI is holding up after time.. I certainly understand the issues with carbon build up for DI, and understand WHY honda made the decision they did.. but I'd think they could be a little more competitive price wise then if they're just rehashing old designs/engines..
04-25-2011, 02:21 PM
#45
lol Like I said, it reminds me of a camry, and I happen to think that model year camry is the ugliest thing ever. I actually like the current gen (or now old model gen) civic sedan. I still got my good old trusty '00 MY civic sedan.. It's very reliable, gets good mileage, and is cheap. Don't know if I can ever justify selling it to "upgrade" to a newer civic.. 
The "power meter," VTEC indicator, and other nonsense on the Si are just so tacky, I don't even know what to say..
04-26-2011, 06:08 AM
#46
The tail lights are definitely a big step back, especially compared to the 8th gen ones. The initial reviews of the car, though, are very good with most of them talking about improvements to refinement with virtually no loss of sportiness. The interior sounds like it's made of slightly cheaper materials but they've added more content to offset that, probably in an effort to better compete with the likes of Hyundai and Kia.
04-26-2011, 09:35 AM
#48
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04-26-2011, 09:41 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by ziggy55' timestamp='1303417947' post='20493590
Honda has info on the new Civic lineup its rolling out... Interior of the SI looks pretty sharp.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/
04-26-2011, 09:52 AM
#50
Registered User
Even TOV review of the 2012 Si was not favorable compared to the out going 8th Gen. My wife's 2010 S1 will be my beater car by the end of this year and I now have no intentions of looking at the 9th Gen.