Most Significant Cars in American History
#21
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Originally Posted by 34witt' timestamp='1307302759' post='20651184
The Ford Explorer and Mini were talked about as well. I will look up the CR-V vs. Rav4 but I think the CR-V was first. The reason I didn't put the Explorer on the list was because it didn't really do anything new... it was just another SUV. It sold well but that doesn't mean a lot.
As mush as I love the S2000 it hasn't done anything to crazy. The Miata deserves a spot on the list, the S2000 deserves a spot in my garage
I like the information on the Corvette, interesting facts.
The Veyron is an amazing car but for me it was between the Veyron and F1... I didn't want them both on the list. That was an easy choice for me.
For all those against the Viper. Go back to the 1990's and look at the American cars that were on the road. There really wasn't much out there.
As mush as I love the S2000 it hasn't done anything to crazy. The Miata deserves a spot on the list, the S2000 deserves a spot in my garage
I like the information on the Corvette, interesting facts.
The Veyron is an amazing car but for me it was between the Veyron and F1... I didn't want them both on the list. That was an easy choice for me.
For all those against the Viper. Go back to the 1990's and look at the American cars that were on the road. There really wasn't much out there.
Putting together a list like yours is really hard because its tough to decide what is "significant". GM was the first company with turbo cars. They had the turbo Corvair and a turbo Olds. While they were first I wouldn't call them as significant as say the turbo SAABs. In part due to limited technology of the time GM didn't address many of the issues associated with turbos. Proper boost control is a big deal. In the end GM dropped turbos and they wouldn't come back until the late 70s.
I believe SAAB was the first to setup a robust turbo control system. I believe Porsche ended licensing parts of the system (that doesn't mean Porsche didn't independently develop the same technology). So one could argue that SAAB showed the world what a modern turbo would be. Now turbos are common. The question is, are turbos common because of SAAB? I would guess probably not. While SAAB did answer many questions related to turbos, the other companies may have answered those same questions just as quickly without SAAB. The SAAB turbos were a way to get more power out of an existing engine since SAAB couldn't easily drop in say a V6. Throughout the 80s and much of the 90s turbos were the way to boost the power of a motor when a larger engine didn't fit (not always true but common enough)
Perhaps the VW 1.8T deserves more credit for turbos in the US. It was one of the first turbos that wanted the driver to forget the car had a turbo. It was the base motor in the A4 and B5 Passat. Prior to the 1.8T most turbos were one line the SAAB. They came on higher in the rev range in a very obvious fashion. The 1.8T was a low pressure setup and initially only made 150hp out of a 1.8L motor. But that motor had a nice robust mid range and virtually no turbo lag. Compare that to a mid 90s SAAB which will have more power but noticeable lag and slow throttle response. With that in mind perhaps the 1.8T is one of the most influential engine of the last 20 years. It showed the world that turbos can be mainstream engines, not just the high power engine. It also showed that a turbo could be made to make an engine feel like a larger motor while delivering smaller motor mileage*.
*I don't know that it actually delivered in that regard. My parents had a '98 B5 Passat 5spd and a '99 Accord I4 5spd. The Accord was just as quick and just as good on gas (but used regular vs premium). The Accord was a 2.4L I4.
Great info! And yes, this list was hard. A lot of research was done while making it. We both threw our opinions in there and yet tried to not be bias at the same time.
#22
Someone mentioned the Corvair, and since the list is most "significant" cars, I'd add the Corvair (not just for the turbo but overall). It was a major focus of Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed and kicked off an era of concern with safety. You can argue about whether it was over done, but it led to many changes. I owned three Corvairs in my days, so I might be biased...
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Good effort, but the list is waaaay too heavily weighted to modern cars, IMHO. There's only 1 pre-war car on there, and only 4 cars on it are older than the 1950s! This list would be a good start for most significant American cars after 1970...
Also, the McLaren F1 was never officially imported to America. So it seems silly to include it on a list of significant American cars..
Andrew
Also, the McLaren F1 was never officially imported to America. So it seems silly to include it on a list of significant American cars..
Andrew
#24
Originally Posted by closetgeek' timestamp='1307298049' post='20651022
NSX? Aluminum chassis?
I'd also say the Hyundai doesn't belong there. Its only been a few years. It hasn't made history yet. Maybe in 20 years we can look back and say this was a turning point for Hyundai in America, but we can't say that yet.
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Someone mentioned the Corvair, and since the list is most "significant" cars, I'd add the Corvair (not just for the turbo but overall). It was a major focus of Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed and kicked off an era of concern with safety. You can argue about whether it was over done, but it led to many changes. I owned three Corvairs in my days, so I might be biased...
#28
Can't agree with the Genesis, Viper, 911, F1.
F1 - a great engineering exercise, but hasn't impacted anything. I've never even seen one on the road.
911 - if rear engined sportscars were so great, why it this the only one. The Miura would fit better as the first Supercar.
Viper - just a big giant engine attached to a sportscar chassis (but yes I want one). Maybe an Auburn or Packard or something in its place.
Genesis - really?
Even the Bug. I've never owned one, but it is a true oddball that probably only sold because it was cheap and simple. It is just a modern Model T.
What is needed is a station wagon and something like a 1976 Caddy Eldorado Convert.
F1 - a great engineering exercise, but hasn't impacted anything. I've never even seen one on the road.
911 - if rear engined sportscars were so great, why it this the only one. The Miura would fit better as the first Supercar.
Viper - just a big giant engine attached to a sportscar chassis (but yes I want one). Maybe an Auburn or Packard or something in its place.
Genesis - really?
Even the Bug. I've never owned one, but it is a true oddball that probably only sold because it was cheap and simple. It is just a modern Model T.
What is needed is a station wagon and something like a 1976 Caddy Eldorado Convert.
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The Bug is very significant. First, it I believe is still the all time best selling single model. Like the Model T it was basically one design over the years. Also, it was what started VW. Without the bug, no VW. That might mean no Audi and would have seriously affected Porsche who used VW parts liberally in their earlier years. So that already makes the Bug a very big deal. The car didn't influence much in so far as other manufactures didn't copy the design. However, the Bug parts were the basis for many kit cars and the Formula Vee race car. None of that should be discounted. I suspect there might be some market influences that people found due to the bug as well. Either way, it was a very significant car even if it didn't show the rest of the world how a small car should be designed.