windhund116

Bullwings

I don't change oil. I change motors.

The oil last as long as the engine lasts. No need to change it.

vader1

I think for those who have not been around forever like some on the board it would be beneficial to find old threads with a lot of input from a member that went by "Road Rage" and discussions of oil changes. I can't remember what he did professionally exactly but he did a lot of oil analysis and testing. He did mention that modern oils, under normal operating conditions, can be in very good shape at 5,000 miles, but that in their testing filters are fairly full of silicates (I was assuming grit mostly getting through the air filter) at 5,000. He said something to the effect that all oil filters were not equal, and when they get plugged oil will not circulate as easily through the engine, or small failures can occur in the material that just lets grit keep circulating through the engine and causing wear. I don't know if a plugged up filter might cause higher pressure and possible leaks, but that seems like it could be possible to me.

I think both of my cars have a 10,000 mile interval and use a very thin 0w-20. I used his advice to personally choose intervals of 5,000 miles many years ago after reading his take. In my low-mileage driving patterns, it is about one change per year, per car.

windhund116

I change the oil twice a year—it's on my Scheduler—regardless of mileage and usage. We average about 15-20K miles per year on each car.

It's so easy to forget to look at the odometer or the last time I did a change. The oil filter is changed with every oil change. Air filter, once a year.

TommyDeVito

It’s all down to lab analysis and always has. You change the oil when it needs to be changed. Jiffy Lube intervals are old wives tales. Start at 5k miles, send an oil sample (mid drain, not the beginning or the end) in to Blackstone. See what the lab says. If they state the oil was in good condition, well you just wasted your $, so up it to 7k, and do it again. Rinse/repeat until you get it down. I’ve been at 10k on tuned engines running FBO’s before when Blackstone said “go to 12k next time”.

Oil breaks down by use, not time. But that’s if you are using high quality synthetic. With Amsoil in everything (even my mower and weed eater), I change the oil in performance vehicles once per year if using it. If little use, I might go 18-24 months in something lightly used. I also dump the OEM fluids, all over them, diff oil, transfer case, MTF/ATF, as well as engine oil once I break a motor in. Amsoil makes all of it and having lab tested their shit vs. everyone else, well there is a reason it’s all I’ve used in over 20 years. I’m just not a fan of OEM fluids. All a manu does is pay Valvoline or whatever company to make their fluids for them, slap that OEM packaging on it and push it via the service department.

Then there is manu recommended oil weight. 0W-20? 0W is for cold starts, so definitely if up north with the harsher winters than we get down south. 20 is for MPG/CAFE. That’s what Toyota recommends for my performance vehicle, but tuners and track rats have already discovered the bs and I’m switching to 5W30. Even heavier oil is recommended for track days. What weight of oil is more determined by geographic region than anything else. Manus keep going to thinner and thinner oil for cold start EPA testing and CAFE/MPG. And not necessarily for the longevity of the motor. They care about it enough to get you through your warranty period and that’s about it and most are definitely not concerned with hard cornering and/or track use.

Oil wars have been going on since before forums, back when it was BBS and email servers. Lab analysis is the only truth in any of it. If concerned with your warranty then do what the manu says and remember you can DIY, just save your receipts of buying fluids, filters, etc. And keep detailed notes. With a stack of lab results together with receipts I’d happily fight any manu there is if they care to square off.

Chuck S

Right on, Tommy! As you summarized Lab analysis is the only truth in any of it.

I'm fixing to pull a sample this week with 1,850 miles over 15 months since the last oil and filter change -- well beyond the "or 12 months" interval -- and don't expect any surprises nor a recommendation to change the oil or filter. Kinda surprised, though on how few miles I've put on the car this year. But oil and filters are cheap. And wasteful if not needed. At least we could burn it in our multi-fuel trucks in the Army so it wasn't going in a hole in the ground.

I wasn't aware engine oil needed exercise... But the manufacturer's oil change interval is just what it takes to get thru the warranty period is thought provoking -- and easily handled by oil analysis.

-- Chuck

windhund116

Yeah, it's polymer chemistry stuff. The video didn't include the special molecules that help stabilize and assist the polymer's "flexibility." These operate best at engine temperatures and are also susceptible to breakdown—just like those chemicals used to suspend combustion breakdown molecules and dirt.

Saki GT

Some true info, some ambiguous info, some bad info in that video. A dirty filter just lets the dirt passed? Lulz.

I do oil analysis too - best way to dial it in. I have a vehicle with 190k mi on it and it gets one oil change a year, which coincides with the manufacturer recommendation, and is about the life the oil truly has from data, but this car is doing highway driving, so relatively clean and stable environment. My S2000's oil always outlasted the 7,500 mi OCI - it gets changes on time every 12 months now that I'm time limited vs mile limited.

People say things like "oil changes are cheap", but that's not really true any more unless you're doing them yourself. Instead of $20 oil changes, we now have $130-$400 oil changes - less frequent but more expensive now. Once manufacturers and dealers started including oil changes for x time in the new car sale, coincidentally OCIs got a lot longer too.

My take is that the current generation of small displacement, high pressure engines that are overworked and boosted just stresses engines and oil out. The specs are so tight now that cold starts do more damage, and heaven help you if you lose oil pressure. The worst part for me is that as stated above, these engines and oil weights are about CAFE, not the consumer spending $40k on average for a new car who wants to keep it for the average of 12 years (and rising). It's cheaper to replace these engines under warranty than pay EPA fines year after year.

WolfpackS2k

Agreed on oil analysis 100%

Funny thing related to this discussion, that any GRC owner is familiar with....all mainstream Toyotas have 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Well, NOT the GR Corolla, and it very clearly states this in the owners manual. Yet, if you look on the GRC Facebook groups you'll see countless incidences of dealerships arguing that, no the GRC interval is 10,000 miles. (I myself has experienced this as well, multiple times...at same dealership!). It's pretty crazy that, all staff at the dealership will fawn over the GRC (they do, I love it) but then in the next breath insist its the same as every other Toyota and doesn't need 5,000 mile intervals. (FYI for anyone unaware, the GRC [and maybe all Toyotas?] comes with 25,000 miles of included maintenance. So the dealerships aren't even paying for this work.)

Now does the GR Corolla need to have the oil changed every 5,000 miles? Probably not. In fact the one time I submitted an oil sample to Blackstone after 5,000 miles they said it had plenty of life still in it. And that 5,000 miles included 70 laps around Virginia International Raceway and an 800+ mile weekend ripping around the mountains of NC & TN.

windhund116

He presents a different, maybe independent-garage centric argument to the equation. I never thought about this until I remembered all my interactions with dealer service departments.

I feel that most manufacturers and dealers have a long-term agenda, and it isn't always in the consumer's best interest.

I try to do as much maintenance as possible on my cars.