Dibsen

this was exactly why I even looked at the M2. I thought it could tick a lot of my boxes at less than half the cost of a 911. Now I am hyper critical of cars (and some other things), and I was modest about the things I didn’t like about the car. But about halfway through the test drive I decided I did not even like this car.

the salesman asked if I would be interested if he could make a crazy deal if it would change my mind. I asked, what’s a crazy deal? He returned, you tell me. I told him I wouldn’t even buy the car for $50k. And they have it listed at $78k

so I’m trying to take my brothers advice. He said, you have a great sports car, why are you still looking? And it’s a fair point. My only complain about the S is it’s a little too Honda. There is a lot of plastic and it’s kind of loud and rattle-y. So I emailed Euro Boutique the other day and I am considering sending them my car to make it a little less Honda and a little more luxed up.

id rather spend 10k on a car I love than 50k (more like 70k) on a car I don’t.

koopagabla

78k is crazy, I agree not worth it for that price. I got mine for high 50's back before covid pricing and I don't feel like its worth more. Still curious how the new one drive but from what everyone says it doesn't seem as playful.

QUIKAG

So, may have mentioned it before, but I did an M Track Day (cost $500 or so) at COTA several months ago. They had us do acceleration runs down a parking lot in the XM, X3M/X4M, the fast electric SUVs, whatever they're called, then got to track M3 and M4 competitions on the 3.4 mile circuit on lead/follow sessions and then finally the timed autocross for prizes in the new M2. 3 laps around a fairly tight, technical course. Not to brag (being the BMW Ultimate Driver winner and all ), but I set the fastest lap of the 3 day-weekend and actually really enjoyed the car. As long as you added power a touch early as you unwound the steering around corners, the car shot out pretty strong. Braking and transitions were better than I expected. ZF shifting was solid and didn't slow me down at all. Overall, the car was pretty damn fun to drive and I left actually liking it.

The next week (of course ), I start researching the M2 and even emailed my local dealer (Sewell BMW in Grapevine, TX) and they had a roughly one year waiting list supposedly, but I could send them my build. Unfortunately, my build came out to like low 70's with all the goodies I wanted. Yeah, obviously not feeling it anymore, so if they email me down the road and say it's time to place the order, I'm going to pass. At lower 60's, it's more of a compelling case, but in the 70's, it just doesn't move me enough to actually want to buy one.

s.hasan546

Most modern bmw manuals are pretty mediocre because the throws are long and less mechanical. But if you get a AutoSolutions kit by Ronald, you will be shocked how good the manual will feel.

TheDonEffect

Yeah I think what gets lost alot of times is that cars get engineered so well that the driver is not needed. With cars now having total control over all the inputs, the systems can figure out how to optimally achieve what the driver is looking to do (get around a corner). It's just a matter of time before it starts to correct steering. So at some point then it becomes less about driving and more of a personal rollercoaster ride. I had this thought the other day while driving the Plaid, totally mental car, and we were astonished how well it handled, but then I thought wait, is it because of the chassis tuning or is it because the car knows what I want to do, does all the math, and essentially does it for me. I realized this while I was flooring it in a corner, trying to agitate it and my initial reaction was wow look at the traction and how composed it is, then I realized wait... it's just cutting the power and correcting what I was doing for me. We then had a big laugh just chucking it into corners and flooring it and watching it just work itself out. Well at this point then they might as well just have a Michael Schumacher or whoever Auto Pilot mode or something.




The problem with power in heavier cars, is that it's less impressive. Heavier car usually means longer wheelbases, more insulation, bigger tires, etc etc, all of which take away from the sensations of speed. So while you may feel the g forces and see the needle move, it's lacking alot of that drama that we associate with speed. It's sorta a victim of its own engineering success in that they succeeded at making an isolation chamber, which is what the vast majority of people associate with a high quality vehicle, but by doing so took away the drama of driving. They then think well if we make it fast enough, drivers will be happy. I don't drive magazine lap times.

That's where your S2000 comes into play, it's slow by today's standards, but its rewarding, and so much fun in very specific situations, all while not giving you an ounce of concern over durability or ownership costs. We sometimes forget that to truly afford something, one has to be able to be able to dispose of it without issue. We sometimes forget that there are a ton of people out there who can literally take any car to the dealer and are only concerned about when they will get it back, some people even have people do this chore for them and have zero curiousity over the bill.

But when you get into that realm of cars, they should be special in some form, and I think this is where the new M2 is lacking. It's not fast for the money (stock anyway), it's not the most driver engaging car, and it's also not particularly pretty. So what it is then?

If you can swing it, you're better off with your S2000 and buying a second car that better suits your needs. Or maybe upgrading the S2000 to something more mental whether it's an Elise or a Corvette, or whatever else (Supra...), and then getting a second car. That's the issue with the new M2, it's now priced to the point where it doesn't separate itself from the two car solution. When I was shopping the M2C, it was in the mid 50s, at that price you'd be hard pressed to find a car with that much performance, driving dynamics, and luxury/DDability. But flirting with 80k, well that opens up a ton of options, you could legit buy a brand new Supra and a lightly used Lexus, or a brand new ITS with a C6 Z06, etc etc etc.

Dibsen

At this point my plans are to keep the S because I think it’s an icon. Probably 2 years from now I’ll look to build a 911 turbo or a GT3. I speced both and after options they wound up costing the same. I’m also looking at some older Ferraris (I’m a big F430 fan) and basically everything 90s and on. I haven’t driven a California but I’d consider one too.

Dizings2k

100% this. I have a recent thread here about my 2020 M2C that I adore. It's not an s2000 replacement, but its darn near a perfect compliment to the S when you're in need of something more practical, but still fast, fun and analog.

sam_spider

Yep, I did similar and bought a 911 a few years ago thinking it could replace the S2000. It can't, so I kept both.

QUIKAG

Ultimately, this is going to be the way it plays out when the battery tech and charging infrastructure (plus continued refinement of the EV's out there) fully matures. Almost all of us (meaning enthusiasts) will have high performance, butt kicking EV's for the daily slog, run to the stores, errands, etc. and then the ICE, lighter, great handling, super fun to drive, manual transmissions cars for the fun and special drives.

I'm interested (but probably won't buy) in the upcoming Model 3 Performance/Plaid whatever they call it. The new Highland Model 3 has gotten great reviews and I've seen pics of the performance bucket seats in the prototype performance models. If they actually put a real suspension, bucket seats, and good brakes in a 500+hp electric car that actually has good dynamics, it will make cars like the M2, M3, etc. mostly obsolete from a value perspective.

TheDonEffect

I finally got around to hoon a Plaid and it literally and figuratively scrambled my brain. I said a while ago that EVs would essentially render muscle/GT type cars obsolete, and the new M2 is more muscle/GT car than it is sports car now. The caveat is the V8 soundtrack though, I was never a fan of the BMW sound.

What was astonishing though was how composed it was around corners. I mean it understeered like a mother, but considering the speed, weight, and power it had to cope with, it exceeded my expectations. The fact we did it with four adults in essentially full luxury was really impressive. The first thought I had was how do I get this drivetrain into a Model 3, lol. There is so much speed here that I don't need the added complication of a manual, the power is there, ready, all the time, provided the car lets you use it, lol.

Tesla, and EVs, have come a long way in a short amount of time in improving the dynamics, the Plaid was really eye opening from that perspective. Like why get a GTR or M3 when that exists? The kicker to all this the price, an in stock Plaid will run you about 100k, and a prior gen 3 with PP was around 50-60k. I drove the 3 as well and yeah if I were BMW I'd be a little nervous because they're really not that far off. I realize there is the elephant in the room about the long term ownership costs of Teslas, but it isn't like BMW owners sleep peacefully at night either. A Model 3 Plaid for 50-60k would be insane value.

But, bringing it back on topic, this is not the car for me, at least not right now. It doesn't replace the joys I get from a more driver focused vs lap time focused driver's car. Approach a corner, nail a heel toe downshift, turn it in, get the exit throttle just right and feel the slingshot effect hearing the engine in full song, nothing better than that. But if I had the means of a touring car, yeah EV may be the way to go soon enough.