[DT]

Is that a boy car or a girl car in the picture? I guess you're implying it's the former?

sparrow

TRDLiquidSilver

dumbass... if i could have the lead engineer talk or email you in regards to what input yamaha and aisin had in the lfa i would but won't because its stupid and its confidential. ive sat in meetings with the guy in japan and the states.

i could have a whole day discussion with all of you how auto manufacturing works and my post would be 10 times as long as DonEffect. in the end i guess i'm sackrider cause i work for them but drive a honda, go figure.

TRDLiquidSilver

i love my S too but not as much as you...

cyde01

don, while i agree with your conclusions i really don't see how i've missed your points at all. i think you've missed my points.

I honestly don't understand how you can say that. Power to weight is one of the most crucial factors in performance and a good predictor of how fast a car will be. Cars with inferior power to weight simply cannot compete with cars with better power to weight without a substantial advantage in grip, aerodynamics, or torque curve. You simply do not see cars with lower power to weight beat cars with higher power to weight unless they have trick AWD systems like the GTR or crazy aerodynamics like the ASM S2000. And I really don't think any of the LFA's competitors have that kind of an x-factor advantage over it.


While I concede that the 458 out-does a lfa, how can you say that the performance numbers are comparable between an f430 and an lfa? where are these performance numbers? until they do a dry lap on top gear or more auto reviewers seriously test the car, how can we know that the performance numbers are on the same level? The LFA has a pretty good advantage over the F430 in terms of power to weight, so it would be natural to predict that it's performance numbers are gonna be substantially higher as well. Why are you so convinced that the LFA and f430 are even?

The only point I am trying to make is if you ignore the game changing 458, they're NOT charging a decent amount more. It still costs LESS than the LP670 which should only be marginally faster and it costs not that much more than a 599 GTB, which it should be slightly faster than.

I honestly don't know how you can come up with that conclusion. IMO, the ONLY CHEAPER COMPETITION that it can't beat is the 458, LP640, and the bargain buster ZR1 and Viper. When we get more detailed numbers in I am fully expecting the LFA to be FASTER than the 599 GTB, f430, r8, gallardo, gt2, etc etc.

Yes, yes, for the umpteenth time. I do realize that Lexus is an "inferior" brand compared to the exotics. Yes, it is disappointing that the Lexus doesn't cost less money than it's competition. You've made your point, and I NEVER missed this point. I'm as disappointed as you are, but if Hyundai released a sports car that say had equal performance as a ZR1 for say $30k more, I wouldn't buy it, but I'm not gonna say "FAIL UTTER FAIL" either.

I will concede that you probably got me on the NSX issue. I had forgotten how slow 348s and 911s were back in 1990. Although I do recall it seeming like a total rip off as soon as 93-94 when it's rivals seriously stepped up their game. It was probably the gentleman's agreement in Japan that hindered the NSX.

TheDonEffect

So TRDSilver, I realize that I could research about the loom, and I did, and could not find anything. I thought you might've had some insider info on it rather than just being excited that toyota made a specific tool to make its own parts. I guess you didn't read the post above yours.

Cyde01, you're right in that it doesn't get beat by its competition, I mean it does do 0-60 in the low 3s and what not which is inline with its competition, but I find it hard to believe that they'll be able to shave 8 seconds from their top gear lap time in the dry, doable but kinda hard to see. But if it does top the leader board and begins to go around tracks faster than its rivals, then toyota will have something to talk about.
You're right in that it isn't utter fail, but think of it this way, if production wasnt limied to one 500 unit run, and rather was going to be produced in the amounts of a mcclaren slr or ferrari f430, do you think toyota would get away with the price? Doubtful. I mean if you just take away the extreme rarity of the car, I think consumers will be more critical on teh car.

TRD silver, the reason why people are getting on you about the in house thing is because one of your arguments on why the lfa cost so much is that it was all built in house. We're all fully aware that every manufacturer doesn't build everything in house, but you would think that with a company as big as toyota who apparently has stock in denso aisin, etc which is a huge competitive advantage over say someone like ferrari, that'd they'd be able to produce the car cheaper. But they can't. Ferrari built their F1 transmission, engine, chassis, all in house with only pinifarina penning the design. That's more done in house than Toyota, with less resources, with less economies of scale working for them.
And to further elaborate, every company builds tools to make specific parts, next thing you're going to tell me is that toyota has a machine that produces boranized steel, and there's only one in the whole orld so wow! Uhhh, a lot of companies ow one off machines... it's called design patents to produce their own parts. Hell, even GM uses boranized steel on their center pillars for their trucks.

Every technology or feature can sounds friggin fantastic on paper when an engineer or marketer is explaining it, here's one for the older folks, remember Chorinthian leather?