is japan "mad" at the US
11-18-2007, 08:03 PM
#1
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is japan "mad" at the US
i always wonder why we in the US dont get type R versions, etc, while Europe, etc do. makes me think about old grudges.
or is it just market potential?
or is it just market potential?
11-18-2007, 08:20 PM
#3
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It also may have to do with crash testing. The smog testing is a big one. I don't know what constitutes a change to the engine but if things are changed to much the car must be re-smog checked. I'm sure an additional emissions validation adds quite a bit to the cost of a limited run car.
Also crash testing can play into these things as well. Depending on which parts get changed, the car may require a new crash test. This is why the Mazdaspeed Protege 5 had rather limited boost. The pipe from the turbo were plastic and couldn't hold much pressure. Why plastic? Well from what I read someplace they used plastic because a metal pipe would can constituted some sort of change that would require re-crash testing the car because it would have changed some of the "hard parts" between the engine and front of the car.
I think Mazda was kind of between a rock and a hard place. The Feds are right that a substantial change to the parts in the engine bay could alter crash test performance. However, I don't think an aluminum tube to the intake would adversely affect crash performance any more than a plastic one... but I digress.
Anyway, so we have the potential to require new emissions and crash tests for a limited run car. That doesn't prevent us from having say a Civic Type-S-GT-R but it does mean the few S-GT-Rs sold in the US need to split the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars of testing the feds would require to sell those cars here. That adds to the price of those cars. If it costs Honda $1000 per car you can bet they will want to charge $2-3k more to make up for the hassle and other expenses (and turn a profit). So now that Civic is getting rather pricy. Kind of like the Mugen Civic the dealer was asking $30k for. Sure a few rich teens might fork over $30k for a Civic but honestly most won't.
So we have rule that make low volume runs/configurations rather expensive. That either makes the limited run versions very if not prohibitively expensive while not helping the manufacture's bottom line.
Sadly, I suspect this is part of the reason Ford has now severely limited the SVT range. While they have very enthusiastic followers, the Focus and Contour SVTs probably never paid their own way and likely didn't add any sort of halo affect to the regular versions of their platforms. Pity as both were great cars.
Also crash testing can play into these things as well. Depending on which parts get changed, the car may require a new crash test. This is why the Mazdaspeed Protege 5 had rather limited boost. The pipe from the turbo were plastic and couldn't hold much pressure. Why plastic? Well from what I read someplace they used plastic because a metal pipe would can constituted some sort of change that would require re-crash testing the car because it would have changed some of the "hard parts" between the engine and front of the car.
I think Mazda was kind of between a rock and a hard place. The Feds are right that a substantial change to the parts in the engine bay could alter crash test performance. However, I don't think an aluminum tube to the intake would adversely affect crash performance any more than a plastic one... but I digress.
Anyway, so we have the potential to require new emissions and crash tests for a limited run car. That doesn't prevent us from having say a Civic Type-S-GT-R but it does mean the few S-GT-Rs sold in the US need to split the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars of testing the feds would require to sell those cars here. That adds to the price of those cars. If it costs Honda $1000 per car you can bet they will want to charge $2-3k more to make up for the hassle and other expenses (and turn a profit). So now that Civic is getting rather pricy. Kind of like the Mugen Civic the dealer was asking $30k for. Sure a few rich teens might fork over $30k for a Civic but honestly most won't.
So we have rule that make low volume runs/configurations rather expensive. That either makes the limited run versions very if not prohibitively expensive while not helping the manufacture's bottom line.
Sadly, I suspect this is part of the reason Ford has now severely limited the SVT range. While they have very enthusiastic followers, the Focus and Contour SVTs probably never paid their own way and likely didn't add any sort of halo affect to the regular versions of their platforms. Pity as both were great cars.
11-18-2007, 08:43 PM
#4
As said above, it is smog and safety.
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
11-18-2007, 08:46 PM
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Yes, them Japs are mad at us Americans. 
That's why we don't get certain cars. 
But on the other hand, the GT-R is coming out, so I think they are, in fact, in love with Americans. What more do you want?
That's why we don't get certain cars. But on the other hand, the GT-R is coming out, so I think they are, in fact, in love with Americans.
What more do you want?
11-18-2007, 08:48 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Lice Locket,Nov 19 2007, 01:43 AM
As said above, it is smog and safety.
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
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11-19-2007, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lice Locket,Nov 18 2007, 09:43 PM
As said above, it is smog and safety.
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
As for Europe; their Type R is not the same as a JDM Type R. For example, the UK CTR is 200 hp (almost identical to our Si) whilst the JDM CTR is a 220 hp sedan. Same goes with the UK Accord Type R. In Japan, its called the Euro R (because it wasn't up to the "standards" of a JDM Type R)
