I might actually consider a new Mustang
10-24-2012, 06:37 PM
#41
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<sigh>
Will you actually read what was stated?
It was alleged that the Mustang was "built to handle." That is patently untrue and to claim otherwise is silly.
I never said it coudn't handle or that it wasn't a capable car. I said it wasn't built to handle and, compared to cars that were, it isn't remotely close. Compare the typical Mustang to the typical Scion FR-S/Porsche Cayman/Honda S2000/Lotus Exige and then tell me that it has the same type of feel, response and general handling response? Yeah, the typical Mustang is right up there with them for response and agility, alright.
A one-off model selling in low numbers does not represent the typical Mustang. Otherwise, we'll just pull the best from everyone else and we'll see where it lines up on the "built to handle" ladder.
Will you actually read what was stated?
It was alleged that the Mustang was "built to handle." That is patently untrue and to claim otherwise is silly.
I never said it coudn't handle or that it wasn't a capable car. I said it wasn't built to handle and, compared to cars that were, it isn't remotely close. Compare the typical Mustang to the typical Scion FR-S/Porsche Cayman/Honda S2000/Lotus Exige and then tell me that it has the same type of feel, response and general handling response? Yeah, the typical Mustang is right up there with them for response and agility, alright.
A one-off model selling in low numbers does not represent the typical Mustang. Otherwise, we'll just pull the best from everyone else and we'll see where it lines up on the "built to handle" ladder.
Well what does that even mean? The only difference between the suspension on my car and a V6 automatic, is tires, springs, shocks, bushing and sway bars. The crucial attribute of a good handling car is a rigid chassis and the Mustang has that. If you want to get a Mustang that's "built to handle" Ford will you build one.
AS to comparing the Boss to the best-of of other manufactures, well the Boss laps VIR faster than any BMW in the C&D lightning lap, so again, it must be doing something right. But even if you ignore the Boss 302, you can still get most of the track day bits you'c want (Torsen, Brembos, Recaros, firmer suspension) in a GT and that gives you a car that will terrorize a track day.
10-24-2012, 07:16 PM
#42
The crucial attribute to good handling is a synergy of all systems working together. Cars were still "good handling" before they got as stiff as they are today. It's a matter of how they respond, not necessarily the limits they can reach while performing to the max. I think that's what you're missing.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
10-25-2012, 08:39 AM
#43
Originally Posted by North Star' timestamp='1351012663' post='22102990
The rendering actually looks like an updated version of the fourth gen Mustang, instead of further shaping the throwback design of the fifth gen.
I have nothing to respond to what you are saying but only to give you a nomination for avatar pic of the year award.
10-26-2012, 08:25 AM
#46
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The crucial attribute to good handling is a synergy of all systems working together. Cars were still "good handling" before they got as stiff as they are today. It's a matter of how they respond, not necessarily the limits they can reach while performing to the max. I think that's what you're missing.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
10-26-2012, 09:15 AM
#47
Sure, a Mustang V6 is a great handling car and it's obvious from the start. I've driven the modern Mustang, thanks very much, and it's not a "great handling car". It's capable, it's fast and it'll go around a track pretty well but it isn't a "great handling car". I haven't driven the 302 but that's a low-production, highly focused car, not the typical Mustang and hardly representative of the lineup.
I've driven the modern Mustang, thanks very much, and it's not a "great handling car". It's capable, it's fast and it'll go around a track pretty well but it isn't a "great handling car". I haven't driven the 302 but that's a low-production, highly focused car, not the typical Mustang and hardly representative of the lineup.
10-26-2012, 11:58 AM
#48
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The crucial attribute to good handling is a synergy of all systems working together. Cars were still "good handling" before they got as stiff as they are today. It's a matter of how they respond, not necessarily the limits they can reach while performing to the max. I think that's what you're missing.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
Either way, as I said, live axle + lots of weight + big dimensions + front-heavy weight distribution is not a recipe that indicates "built to handle". That'd be more like IRS + low weight + low CG + relatively even weight distribution, for starters...
I'm done.
Is it larger and heavier than a FR-S or Miata? Sure, but those cars don't have 400+hp.
10-26-2012, 12:11 PM
#49
Holy cow, what part of "built to handle" vs "capability" do you not understand? No one is saying the Mustang can't be fast around a racetrack. So is a Kia Optima, when done properly.
Let me put it this way - if you asked a chassis/suspension designer to "build a car that will handle", would they immediately pick a live axle car with a 2+2 configuration with a high COG and 55/45 weight distribution?
Didn't think so!
/end of discussion
Let me put it this way - if you asked a chassis/suspension designer to "build a car that will handle", would they immediately pick a live axle car with a 2+2 configuration with a high COG and 55/45 weight distribution?
Didn't think so!
/end of discussion
10-26-2012, 12:28 PM
#50
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Holy cow, what part of "built to handle" vs "capability" do you not understand? No one is saying the Mustang can't be fast around a racetrack. So is a Kia Optima, when done properly.
Let me put it this way - if you asked a chassis/suspension designer to "build a car that will handle", would they immediately pick a live axle car with a 2+2 configuration with a high COG and 55/45 weight distribution?
Didn't think so!
/end of discussion
Let me put it this way - if you asked a chassis/suspension designer to "build a car that will handle", would they immediately pick a live axle car with a 2+2 configuration with a high COG and 55/45 weight distribution?
Didn't think so!
/end of discussion
That's a distinction without a difference, a car handles well or it doesn't. You can visit you local Ford dealer and they'll be happy to sell you a Mustang that will mop the floor with any production BMW on any racetrack you'd care to name. The result speak for themselves.
Here I'll make is simple.
1. Ford builds the Mustang GT and Boss 302.
2. The Mustang GT and Boss 302 handle well.
3. The Mustang GT and Boss 302 were built to handle well.