Hyundai Genesis Coupe Spec R
10-31-2009, 12:22 PM
#51
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8,Oct 30 2009, 12:45 PM
I'm sorry, I was under the impression I agreed with what the kid had to say. How was I in an argument, and how did I "lose?" It's not my fault he can't figure out when someone agrees with him.
The Genesis coupe is a low-end offering from a Korean maker that doesn't have a long track record yet. It's foolish to expect their products to be top shelf but bottom dollar, especially when they are relatively new to the kind of car the Genesis is.
I never said they were crap. I stated agreement with the fact that for the money, you aren't getting a drivetrain as stout as an EVO. That's a fact, and it is perfectly understandable because the turbo Genesis is cheaper than the Mitsubishi.
Some people need to learn to read before posting.
I'm not the only person in this thread to suggest the Hyundai is not the best car out there for any kind of money. I'm sure not buying one, but then there's a lot of cars I don't want. Deal with it.
The Genesis coupe is a low-end offering from a Korean maker that doesn't have a long track record yet. It's foolish to expect their products to be top shelf but bottom dollar, especially when they are relatively new to the kind of car the Genesis is.
I never said they were crap. I stated agreement with the fact that for the money, you aren't getting a drivetrain as stout as an EVO. That's a fact, and it is perfectly understandable because the turbo Genesis is cheaper than the Mitsubishi.
Some people need to learn to read before posting.
I'm not the only person in this thread to suggest the Hyundai is not the best car out there for any kind of money. I'm sure not buying one, but then there's a lot of cars I don't want. Deal with it.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about the Gen coupe. On one had I find myself aggravated when people write it off as "It's just a Hyundai", but on the other hand, it is not what I expect from a sports car. I think that it is too big, too heavy, and is not nearly refined enough to be compared to many of its contemporaries. However lacking it may be as a sports car I would certainly rather have a lower-end-of-the-spectrum sports car than a FWD compact car as a daily driver for the same price. At least I think I would...
10-31-2009, 05:31 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by JonBoy,Oct 30 2009, 01:46 PM
Here are the statements you made that were in disagreement with what I said:
1. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't be expecting a Hyundai 2.0 turbo to hold together long under increased boost. (350 hp should be reliably achievable since it is based on the 4B11 architecture)
2. The "cheap power" myth with turbo cars is based on a bullet-proof long block. And that's not what Hyundai delivers for Walmart pricing. Not surprisingly. (we have no proof that this motor is weak and we know that other iterations are quite strong so you're making a big leap here).
3. Hyundai make cheaper cars than their competition. (less expensive, perhaps, but not necessarily cheap. They're comparable with some Nissans I've been in recently and the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is comparable to a Civic overall while the Sonata is comparable to a Nissan Altima and even a Camry for general fit and finish).
4. It's foolish to expect their products to be top shelf but bottom dollar, especially when they are relatively new to the kind of car the Genesis is. (that's what people said about Honda 20 years ago, not to mention I didn't say top shelf, just not horrible like you were inferring).
1. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't be expecting a Hyundai 2.0 turbo to hold together long under increased boost. (350 hp should be reliably achievable since it is based on the 4B11 architecture)
2. The "cheap power" myth with turbo cars is based on a bullet-proof long block. And that's not what Hyundai delivers for Walmart pricing. Not surprisingly. (we have no proof that this motor is weak and we know that other iterations are quite strong so you're making a big leap here).
3. Hyundai make cheaper cars than their competition. (less expensive, perhaps, but not necessarily cheap. They're comparable with some Nissans I've been in recently and the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is comparable to a Civic overall while the Sonata is comparable to a Nissan Altima and even a Camry for general fit and finish).
4. It's foolish to expect their products to be top shelf but bottom dollar, especially when they are relatively new to the kind of car the Genesis is. (that's what people said about Honda 20 years ago, not to mention I didn't say top shelf, just not horrible like you were inferring).
That doesn't mean I hate Hyundai or am not being fair to them. In my mind there is a lot of room between "desirable" and "garbage." I don't like people assuming I am ignorant and calling something garbage just because I didn't call it awesome
10-31-2009, 08:07 PM
#53
Fair enough. In light of that, though, perhaps you should modify the tone you use because both your tone and attitude are saying "I hate Hyundai and they make crappy cars" rather than being remotely objective. 
10-31-2009, 09:12 PM
#54
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hyundai is on a roll! the genesis sedan is superb, and hyundai is catering and marketing to the performance/enthusiast crowd with the genesis coupe, albeit one step at a time. very nice.
hyundai will bring over the all new sonata next yr, and then their flagship Equus, and then the next gen. azera. time to buy up hyundai motor stocks!! lol
hyundai will bring over the all new sonata next yr, and then their flagship Equus, and then the next gen. azera. time to buy up hyundai motor stocks!! lol
11-02-2009, 01:16 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.,Oct 31 2009, 12:22 PM
I think you guys are in agreement on certain points but the general tone of your statements is different.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about the Gen coupe. On one had I find myself aggravated when people write it off as "It's just a Hyundai", but on the other hand, it is not what I expect from a sports car. I think that it is too big, too heavy, and is not nearly refined enough to be compared to many of its contemporaries. However lacking it may be as a sports car I would certainly rather have a lower-end-of-the-spectrum sports car than a FWD compact car as a daily driver for the same price. At least I think I would...
Personally, I have mixed feelings about the Gen coupe. On one had I find myself aggravated when people write it off as "It's just a Hyundai", but on the other hand, it is not what I expect from a sports car. I think that it is too big, too heavy, and is not nearly refined enough to be compared to many of its contemporaries. However lacking it may be as a sports car I would certainly rather have a lower-end-of-the-spectrum sports car than a FWD compact car as a daily driver for the same price. At least I think I would...
it's a great bargain, i personally don't care for brand name.
the motor felt sluggish, maybe it was the condition of the demo car, maybe it was the hot temp or maybe it just plain ole turbo lag combined with e nanny.
comparing to the v6, the v6 felt like a better package, not only that of the stock hp output(most tuner wouldn't care for that) but the overall experience. The interior was very decent(not infinite/acura yet), the interior volume is just right.
but for the 2.0"track edition" tuner car, it felt too soft, too dampered out of the box.
i know suspension, engine output can be taken care of by aftermarket part but the chassis itself almost felt too big. maybe just my experience with compact import, but compare to the camaro the genesis coupe felt right in place
11-03-2009, 01:52 PM
#57
so people say the 2.0t isnt as strong as the EVO motor. But if the internals are the same and the crank can be swapped nothing is stopping a tuner who is in search of power to swap in some badass lowcompression pistons, built rods, and other internal reinforcement.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Saying the suspension is mushy is really mute point. WHy would they put a hot suspension on the car if the buyer's intent is to modify it? just look at how many people upgrade the S2000's excellent OEM suspension.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Saying the suspension is mushy is really mute point. WHy would they put a hot suspension on the car if the buyer's intent is to modify it? just look at how many people upgrade the S2000's excellent OEM suspension.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
11-03-2009, 02:00 PM
#58
Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan,Nov 3 2009, 04:52 PM
so people say the 2.0t isnt as strong as the EVO motor. But if the internals are the same and the crank can be swapped nothing is stopping a tuner who is in search of power to swap in some badass lowcompression pistons, built rods, and other internal reinforcement.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
Even if you match the internals, you still have a weaker block in the Genesis. So no, the Genesis motor won't ever be as strong as the Evo motor, regardless of what you do. Take a bare block from the Genesis and do the same with the Evo and put in the same parts and the Evo motor will be stronger. Doesn't mean you can't make a lot of power with the Genesis, only that the STOCK internals and block will not take as much abuse.
11-03-2009, 02:48 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan,Nov 3 2009, 02:52 PM
so people say the 2.0t isnt as strong as the EVO motor. But if the internals are the same and the crank can be swapped nothing is stopping a tuner who is in search of power to swap in some badass lowcompression pistons, built rods, and other internal reinforcement.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Saying the suspension is mushy is really mute point. WHy would they put a hot suspension on the car if the buyer's intent is to modify it? just look at how many people upgrade the S2000's excellent OEM suspension.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
The end result will be Genesis R spec coupes which will easily push 400-600whp+ and be faster than the evo. Hell pretty much any limit the evo has will likely be shared with the genesis, assuming the tranny and diff can take the abuse.
Saying the suspension is mushy is really mute point. WHy would they put a hot suspension on the car if the buyer's intent is to modify it? just look at how many people upgrade the S2000's excellent OEM suspension.
Bash all you want. But the fact remains is that under the hood of that car is an engine which shares many similarities with the EVO. sure manifolds etc may not be interchangeable, but thats what the aftermarket world is for.
Historically, people buying Hyundai cars cared about only one thing - the price tag. Any other consideration was irrelevant. Hyundai knows this, and that's their niche. Apparently someone at Hyundai is trying to move the company forward with the Genesis coupe and sedans, and they have a tough road to hoe. I'm hoping it's a project fighting an uphill battle within the corporate structure, but I'm afraid it's a cynical grab for cash by aping the form but ignoring the function.
The issue with the soft suspension from the factory is that other cars don't come that way. They might not come with the best ever, but at least they are set up on the dealer lot to be tight and handle well. It's reasonable to need to replace the shocks and/or springs on a used car, but on a new car it's inexcusable.
It's tough to argue the Genesis coupe is a real sports car when even the people who build it didn't bother putting decent shocks on it or spend any time trying to make it a real handling machine. And if me as a buyer can't tell what the Genesis is really capable of until I take it home and buy new shocks, how am I expected to know if the whole suspension is messed and nothing I do will keep it from wandering under braking and skipping lanes in a curve because the control arms are flexing and not the right lengths to prevent camber loss as they move through their range of motion? Just because it has an IRS doesn't mean it is designed well. That takes time and money.
They didn't spend the money on the shocks and suspension tuning, where else did they skip on the development? We know they didn't throw down for engine internals, for example. What reason does a buyer have to think Hyundai just sells it with weak shocks and an engine not overly stout, but everything else is top notch?
Love it all you want. If the price tag is the only thing you think is important, and you don't understand how suspension design is in the details and not just in where the driven wheels are or how they are connected, you'll probably enjoy the Genesis coupe and brag to everyone how great it is. But for the same reason someone would buy a Cayman over a Corvette, some of us have a hard time getting excited over a Genesis coupe. On paper it's all there, but once the tires hit the road some of us can't ignore the cheapness. We can buy a better used car from someone else for the same money. So why buy a new car from Hyundai?
I'm not bashing. I'm considering the car for what it is and what it's trying to be, in context. The car is what it is, and that is fine. What it isn't is a top notch sports coupe on par with the Mustang GT's, 350Z/370Z, the S2000, BMW Z cars and the 1 series, I could go on. It's not up to par, and that's because Hyundai buyers are what they'd call "price-sensitive" or "cost-conscious" or what an experienced car enthusiast might call "cheap, under-funded, and not particularly savvy." That's OK, everyone has different interests. But not many enthusiasts are going to be impressed with a Genesis coupe when compared to all the other sports coupes that share the market.
11-03-2009, 03:55 PM
#60
BREAKING NEWS: Hyundai has become the world's 4th largest automaker! 
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-...gest-Automaker/
In a few years, it'll move up too.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-...gest-Automaker/
In a few years, it'll move up too.