Hyundai Genesis Coupe Spec R
10-27-2009, 11:08 AM
#11
I did some reading on the differences between the evo's and gen coupe's engines, the gen has a lesser turbo, cams, and apparently the pistons and rods aren't as robust. From what I remember the only thing that was teh same was the block itself, but everything else was different.
10-27-2009, 11:14 AM
#12
Even the block is different, as listed above. Less internal reinforcement/webbing, apparently.
10-27-2009, 11:53 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by JonBoy,Oct 27 2009, 11:04 AM
The same architecture, yes, but the motors are completely different in how they're built and what materials they employ.
1. While the Hyundai 4B is similar in many ways, there are very few common parts. The block, head, pistons, rods, crank, etc. are all similar, but different. Different in that they are lower grade. Hyundai’s rods are powder sintered whereas Mitsubishi’s are forged. Mitsubishi’s pistons are made by Mahle and have a oil reservoir underneath the dish like a Porsche turbo piston. Hyundai’s cast piston is no different in strength compared to one of their passenger cars. Hyundai’s 4B block has far less webbing (this is visible from the exterior). The differences go on and on. That doesn’t mean the Hyundai parts suck. It’s just that the Mitsubishi 4B11T is way better out of the box. While the parts are different, that doesn’t mean that the Mitsubishi pistons, rods, and crank cannot fit into a Hyundai 4B.
2. The cylinder head is different enough that the exhaust manifold and intake manifold flanges and gaskets are not common. They are absolutely different so there will be no manifold and turbo swapping. The Mitsu engine is mounted transverse and it is very likely that the castings wouldn’t work anyway.
So, I agree they can get more power out of it but I think it'll be more difficult to do it reliably. That said, with better cooling, more boost, and a good tuner, I'd expect them to crack 290-300 whp by the end of the year (I believe Greddy is showing their kit at SEMA?)
1. While the Hyundai 4B is similar in many ways, there are very few common parts. The block, head, pistons, rods, crank, etc. are all similar, but different. Different in that they are lower grade. Hyundai’s rods are powder sintered whereas Mitsubishi’s are forged. Mitsubishi’s pistons are made by Mahle and have a oil reservoir underneath the dish like a Porsche turbo piston. Hyundai’s cast piston is no different in strength compared to one of their passenger cars. Hyundai’s 4B block has far less webbing (this is visible from the exterior). The differences go on and on. That doesn’t mean the Hyundai parts suck. It’s just that the Mitsubishi 4B11T is way better out of the box. While the parts are different, that doesn’t mean that the Mitsubishi pistons, rods, and crank cannot fit into a Hyundai 4B.
2. The cylinder head is different enough that the exhaust manifold and intake manifold flanges and gaskets are not common. They are absolutely different so there will be no manifold and turbo swapping. The Mitsu engine is mounted transverse and it is very likely that the castings wouldn’t work anyway.
So, I agree they can get more power out of it but I think it'll be more difficult to do it reliably. That said, with better cooling, more boost, and a good tuner, I'd expect them to crack 290-300 whp by the end of the year (I believe Greddy is showing their kit at SEMA?)
10-27-2009, 12:09 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by PedalFaster,Oct 27 2009, 11:00 AM
What's cool is that it comes with camber bolts. What's not cool is that those camber bolts are not installed from the factory, rendering them illegal for SCCA Stock class autocrossing. Seems like whoever thought of this package didn't do enough research into the target market first...
10-28-2009, 05:17 AM
#17
Forced induction is easier to modify because you can simply turn up the boost and fuel delivery (properly tuned) and make a bunch more power. With a normally aspirated motor, you have to get it to breath better (basic boltons) and then you have to go with things like cams (moderately high cost), forced induction (high cost), or stroke the motor (high cost) and build it to sustain higher loads/rpm.
Basically, a turbo motor has all the necessary ingredients in place to just "turn up the wick" to make more power. A normally aspirated motor has no such capability.
Basically, a turbo motor has all the necessary ingredients in place to just "turn up the wick" to make more power. A normally aspirated motor has no such capability.
10-28-2009, 06:45 AM
#18
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Some nice "tuner" wheels would have been a great part of this package too. Like something outsourced from Enkei or Volks - hahaha, too bad there's not a "no wheel" option available (your car is sitting on jack stands at the dealer for delivery...).
10-28-2009, 06:54 AM
#19
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I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't be expecting a Hyundai 2.0 turbo to hold together long under increased boost. And we haven't even got into what needs to happen to meter the air or deliver enough fuel. I'd want to know a hell of a lot more about the car, engine, and factory ECU system before buying one based on "cheap power."
As has already been described, the Hyundai motor has weaker internals and a weaker block than the EVO motor. So a person looking to get that kind of power safely and reliably will be rebuilding the engine and hoping the block held. The "cheap power" myth with turbo cars is based on a bullet-proof long block. And that's not what Hyundai delivers for Walmart pricing. Not surprisingly.
As has already been described, the Hyundai motor has weaker internals and a weaker block than the EVO motor. So a person looking to get that kind of power safely and reliably will be rebuilding the engine and hoping the block held. The "cheap power" myth with turbo cars is based on a bullet-proof long block. And that's not what Hyundai delivers for Walmart pricing. Not surprisingly.
10-28-2009, 07:12 AM
#20
In one sentence, you say that you want to know more about the car, engine, and factory ECU before buying into the idea of "cheap power" and then you categorically state the Hyundai doesn't deliver a bullet-proof long block at this price point.
If you want to know more about it, how can you be certain they don't have a solid engine architecture in there? Sounds like you're buying into the "Hyundai makes crappy cars" myth.
"Weaker" doesn't mean "weak", it just means "less strong". The Evo block may only be 15% or 20% stronger, for all its forged internals and reinforced block. That could also mean the Hyundai motor is capable of 350 crank hp without blowing up.
If you want to know more about it, how can you be certain they don't have a solid engine architecture in there? Sounds like you're buying into the "Hyundai makes crappy cars" myth.
"Weaker" doesn't mean "weak", it just means "less strong". The Evo block may only be 15% or 20% stronger, for all its forged internals and reinforced block. That could also mean the Hyundai motor is capable of 350 crank hp without blowing up.