no_really

to be fair, you can get hydrogen from fossil fuels, which is where it would be coming from if hydrogen cars would become commonplace. So hydrogen is certainly not a panacea for oil-related woes. Seems to me it is only idiots and ignorants who think "hydrogen power" is the future.

Penforhire

I do think we'll have wholly electric cars first. The EV1 was ahead of its time but batteries will hit enough energy density (thinking of mid-size car, 80 MPH, 300 mile range) in maybe five years. The environmental issue will still be, where we get the electricity from?

xviper

Do you remember the "OIL SHORTAGE" of the 70's and 80's? Well, that turned out to be Oil companies and governments will get the right scientists to say what they want them to say for their own agendas. And those agendas may have little resemblance to the truth. Sure, one day, all the oil will be gone (or will it?), but who really knows when that will be. It's like the perennial debate that goes on here about when the "last" year of S2000 will be.

xviper

If you are talking about hydrogen sulfide gas and other related compounds, this is still not a "clean" and isolated hydrogen source. It still needs to be extracted.

AlX Boi

Oh yeah, about adding more nuclear plants. That probably won't happen until the new few generations. Americans are very ill informed about the possibilities of nuclear power. Most only think about such historic events as the horrific bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the nuclear plant meltdown on some island in the Mid-East. Little do they know, hydrogen bombs are x times more distructive than nuclear bombs. A lot of European countries have switched to nuclear energy as their primary power source and it's worked out great for them. Americans just need to pick up an issue of Popular Science (one of the easiest of read scientific magazines) and they'll understand that we've come a long way since. It sure doesn't help that the media often shows our president speak of "nuculur weapons" from Iraq. It just further perpetuates the stereotype of nuclear energy being harmful.

Nuclear energy still isn't the best solution. There's tons of nuclear waste barrels that we have no where to discard to. Latest news of possible new waste dump sites include some mountain ranges in Neveda, but there's a law suit still going on about that. The governor of Neveda is really mad about everyone voting to dump it in his state.

For further informative reading about the great wonders of nuclear energy, click here!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_energ...d_disadvantages
Happy reading!

AlX Boi

Ahaha, no, I don't remember. I read about it in school though. Something about even numbered license plates on one day and odd on the other. That said, in order for this industrial age to advance, a cleaner source must be implemented for the human race to continue a prosperous life. It's been over 100 years since the industrial revolution. We've used coal for much too long and the ozone isn't going to fill its own gap. This has nothing to do with hydrogen cars, but I think that point was cleared up with it not being a feasible option.

Slithr

That's the same thing they told us in the 1970s. The edge of doom always seems to be about 20 years out.

Once gasoline hit $6 or $7 per gallon, my guess is that oil shale and perhaps coal gasification become feasable economically and we have plenty of both. The Canadians are beginning to figure out how to extract the petroleum out of their tar sands for a reasonable price, too.

If we can put our farmers back to work growing stuff and the Japanese bioengineers or whoever continue to come up with microbes that are more efficient at turning biomass into ethanol, then we might be able to soldier on with E85 plug-in hybrids for quite a while. If we use nukes to provide most of the electricity then we can use the remaining fossil fuels, primarily coal, to provide the 15% gasoline piece of the pie. Even if we used E50 or something until we get the ethanol infrastructure in place, that would be a beginning. I could see where biodiesel would fit into the picture as well.

The other advantage is that we would be using a storage and delivery infrastructure that is largely in place. Pieces would have to be modifed for use with the ethanol blend, but the effort would be tiny compared to what it would take to put a hydrogen fuel infrastructure in place.

marthafokker

And CA would have gotten to this point now if not for the big SIX sueing CARB.

Battery Technology is improving very quickly in the last two years since gas went above $2. They can recharge 80% in 1 minute and fully recharge in 5 minutes. Of course, you cannot do this at home because of the AMPS required for EV. These batteries are in the market right now. The new power tools released this year are using these quick charge batteries. The only concern to resolved are cost, size, weight, and longivity (these batteries are supposed to have a few thousand deep cycle range already). When all these problems are resolved, EV can then be used like any petro cars.

Do you know Fuel Cell cost 4 times the amount of electricity to produce (not including storage/transport) than it would to just use that electricity for an EV?

Come on Honda.... where's my s2k EV? If only I could afford that Elise EV (aka Tesla Roadster)!!!!

Chris Stack

Spot on. Next time someone mentiones hydrogen powered cars, ask them about the first two laws of Thermodynamics. When they give you a glazed-eyed stare, tell them, "There's no free lunch, and you can't even break even." Then send them to a library and tell them not to come back until they can tell you why hydrogen powered cars are an idiotic idea.

Slamnasty

Ya, the Hydrogen conomy looks less and less likely with each passing day. The obvious problem with hydrogen is that it kind of adds a step to the process of generating the fuel product. It doesn't deter our use of fossil fuels in any way, and there's still the volatility danger associated with its use.

There are upcoming developments that could also overtake Hydrogen as a viable alternative. If the carbon nanotube batteries work out even to half of what people are saying they will be, it could completely displace hydrogen. Diesel is becoming more popular too, and cleaner, and many metropolitan areas are FINALLY building light rail.