How Did We End Up With a Big Sedan Integra?
12-09-2021, 06:33 PM
#41
Picking a brand because they make quality cars is nothing like what I was saying. People feeling like they have to buy for prestige or to show they bought the more expensive car is what I am talking about and it is nothing but vanity pure and simple. I totally get sticking with a good brand. All 3 of my other cars are Toyota products, for a reason. I mean, I still will shop any brand that makes a model I like, but I like a lot of Toyota products and they have proven to be by far the most reliable cars I have ever owned. Not even a close comparison really in other cars I have had. So while I know they have had some issues now and then like most do, overall I can usually count on them to cost me very little money post purchase. So reliability and low total cost of ownership are big to me, since like I said, I keep cars until I drive the wheels off them.
But also to clarify, your friends experience, while good, had more to do with the dealership and likely little to do with Lexus. I have known people who were totally screwed by Lexus or Toyota dealerships (hell probably know people screwed by lots of brands dealers) when the car itself was great, but then they never wanted to buy that brand again. Dealerships can make or break peoples perception of a brand. I was pretty pissed at my Toyota dealership after buying my Scion. Tiny issue that was due to them installing an optional item incorrectly then argued about fixing it, did a poor job so I ended up doing it again myself, then tried to shove a bunch of services that did not apply to my car down my throat. No fault of the people building my car but just crappy dealership people.
But also to clarify, your friends experience, while good, had more to do with the dealership and likely little to do with Lexus. I have known people who were totally screwed by Lexus or Toyota dealerships (hell probably know people screwed by lots of brands dealers) when the car itself was great, but then they never wanted to buy that brand again. Dealerships can make or break peoples perception of a brand. I was pretty pissed at my Toyota dealership after buying my Scion. Tiny issue that was due to them installing an optional item incorrectly then argued about fixing it, did a poor job so I ended up doing it again myself, then tried to shove a bunch of services that did not apply to my car down my throat. No fault of the people building my car but just crappy dealership people.
I feel like those obsessed with image go more European. Most of the people I know with Lexus appreciate the extra attention to interior detail, comfort, and reliability. In my experience they're generally more pragmatic individuals with a bit more disposable income. Maybe it's just me but European car owners are always changing them out; whereas, Lexus owners drive 'em into the ground. Lot's of old Lexus' in my area driven by older people.
12-10-2021, 05:55 AM
#42
I still disagree lol. In my neck of the woods Toyota dealerships are separate from Lexus. You literally get treated completely different at the Lexus dealership. The Lexus I owned briefly was all of $15k, but I was treated like I bought a 6 figure variant. You go to Toyota with a $50k Tundra, and you will be treated like you're homeless. Only speaking in my area. I've just never had good dealership experiences with Honda, Jeep, etc. I had one issue early on with my Wrangler and it was a terrible dealership experience. It's not hard to option a Wrangler or Gladiator north of $50k, yet you get treated like dog shit.
I feel like those obsessed with image go more European. Most of the people I know with Lexus appreciate the extra attention to interior detail, comfort, and reliability. In my experience they're generally more pragmatic individuals with a bit more disposable income. Maybe it's just me but European car owners are always changing them out; whereas, Lexus owners drive 'em into the ground. Lot's of old Lexus' in my area driven by older people.
I feel like those obsessed with image go more European. Most of the people I know with Lexus appreciate the extra attention to interior detail, comfort, and reliability. In my experience they're generally more pragmatic individuals with a bit more disposable income. Maybe it's just me but European car owners are always changing them out; whereas, Lexus owners drive 'em into the ground. Lot's of old Lexus' in my area driven by older people.
12-10-2021, 06:34 AM
#43
I started to type out how much cooler this Integra would have been with a strong 2.0L motor and better styling and how many people may have paid upper 30's to low 40's for it when I realized a lot of people wouldn't do that.......
Who the heck would pay $40k for a FWD 2.0L 4-banger Acura? Now, if they had cool styling, SH-AWD, 300hp 2.0L, six-speed, then maybe $40kish, but it would just be the Focus RS, Sti, etc. type crowd which I don't think is huge numbers.
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Who the heck would pay $40k for a FWD 2.0L 4-banger Acura? Now, if they had cool styling, SH-AWD, 300hp 2.0L, six-speed, then maybe $40kish, but it would just be the Focus RS, Sti, etc. type crowd which I don't think is huge numbers.
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I think the people who would have bought the car you describe are people who want a "sport sedan' that delivers what a Type R delivers, but does not look like a Decepticon. I don't know how many people that would be but it might have included me had I not just bought a new car, especially if they would have offered said car with the Type R's manual. It still could have been not enough people to justify the model, but when since the Type R hit our shores I have been saying "If they only made this same car as an Acura with a nice interior and sheds the ugly." But I am used to being in the minority about a lot of opinions. Typre R's are near $40k now so I don't think it would be a big stretch.
Last edited by vader1; 12-10-2021 at 06:46 AM.
12-10-2021, 08:31 AM
#44
I think the people who would have bought the car you describe are people who want a "sport sedan' that delivers what a Type R delivers, but does not look like a Decepticon. I don't know how many people that would be but it might have included me had I not just bought a new car, especially if they would have offered said car with the Type R's manual. It still could have been not enough people to justify the model, but when since the Type R hit our shores I have been saying "If they only made this same car as an Acura with a nice interior and sheds the ugly." But I am used to being in the minority about a lot of opinions. Typre R's are near $40k now so I don't think it would be a big stretch.
12-10-2021, 01:15 PM
#45
I'm no brand whore, but in the case with Toyota vs Lexus, the styling, fit and finish, and luxury is notable. I can tell the difference between a top spec Camry/Avalon vs an ES, that line is harder to discern between a top spec Accord and its Acura equivalent, a compliment to Honda but a head scratcher for Acura.
12-10-2021, 04:11 PM
#46
I'm no brand whore, but in the case with Toyota vs Lexus, the styling, fit and finish, and luxury is notable. I can tell the difference between a top spec Camry/Avalon vs an ES, that line is harder to discern between a top spec Accord and its Acura equivalent, a compliment to Honda but a head scratcher for Acura.
12-11-2021, 06:54 AM
#47
They can still make a decent driving car out of this. I was able to drive the new Civic Si this week and Honda did a pretty good job with the drivetrain, suspension, and interior. I was impressed more than expected, and it was pretty tossable much to my surprise. The engine, tranny, LSD, short gearing, and suspension earn it some pretty high marks, if it will transfer over to the Integra there will be some positive points. The Civic hatchback is a pretty cool design but the Si goodies are being put on the sedan only. The Civic Si comes in under 3000 lbs, and it pulls hard all the way to redline with a partial vtec system added this year, and the exhaust is really nice. It is a better engine than the last gen version, and putting down more power than it is rated at from initial reports. It feels faster than the numbers show even if it isn't that fast overall.
Watch the first minute of this video with the one guy spray painting the Civic to look like the Integra, good laugh
Watch the first minute of this video with the one guy spray painting the Civic to look like the Integra, good laugh
12-11-2021, 03:14 PM
#48
Registered User
From an outsider's perspective on the far side of the world, all the interesting Acuras are basically rebadged Hondas, and the rest are...unappealing. If I moved to the US, Acura would not be on my shopping list, and I'm a Honda tragic from way back.
Come to think of it, these days I don't think even Honda would be on my shopping list, except maybe the Civic Type R if they dialed the styling way down to "mildly offensive." However, the Integra looks ok to my eyes since I'm no longer familiar with the endless Civic iterations, so stuff the CTR drivetrain in it and I'd take notice. As it stands it's just another commuter sedan.
Come to think of it, these days I don't think even Honda would be on my shopping list, except maybe the Civic Type R if they dialed the styling way down to "mildly offensive." However, the Integra looks ok to my eyes since I'm no longer familiar with the endless Civic iterations, so stuff the CTR drivetrain in it and I'd take notice. As it stands it's just another commuter sedan.
12-11-2021, 03:17 PM
#49
From an outsider's perspective on the far side of the world, all the interesting Acuras are basically rebadged Hondas, and the rest are...unappealing. If I moved to the US, Acura would not be on my shopping list, and I'm a Honda tragic from way back.
Come to think of it, these days I don't think even Honda would be on my shopping list, except maybe the Civic Type R if they dialed the styling way down to "mildly offensive." However, the Integra looks ok to my eyes since I'm no longer familiar with the endless Civic iterations, so stuff the CTR drivetrain in it and I'd take notice. As it stands it's just another commuter sedan.
Come to think of it, these days I don't think even Honda would be on my shopping list, except maybe the Civic Type R if they dialed the styling way down to "mildly offensive." However, the Integra looks ok to my eyes since I'm no longer familiar with the endless Civic iterations, so stuff the CTR drivetrain in it and I'd take notice. As it stands it's just another commuter sedan.
12-11-2021, 03:35 PM
#50
In a sense, the issue with the CTR is that their market got old 
Well not exactly but kinda. Honda looked at all the tacky things did with the bland old Hondas and tried to go back at those people with a factory car that looked like street racer car I think. Problem is that the kids that used to slap big tacky wings on early 2000's or earlier Hondas are grown up now and the ones that were into that overdone stuff are over it and dont want it now. And the younger crowd that still is into all that can't afford it. So it is a car priced and aimed at people who "grew out" of the racer boy car look and the ones that like it most cannot afford it yet. Just my thoughts. Had they come up with a car like that 20 years ago, half the people on here hating it would have been drooling over it lol.
Well not exactly but kinda. Honda looked at all the tacky things did with the bland old Hondas and tried to go back at those people with a factory car that looked like street racer car I think. Problem is that the kids that used to slap big tacky wings on early 2000's or earlier Hondas are grown up now and the ones that were into that overdone stuff are over it and dont want it now. And the younger crowd that still is into all that can't afford it. So it is a car priced and aimed at people who "grew out" of the racer boy car look and the ones that like it most cannot afford it yet. Just my thoughts. Had they come up with a car like that 20 years ago, half the people on here hating it would have been drooling over it lol.