Honda's VP: "Our engineers are really struggling".
02-04-2010, 07:14 AM
#41
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Here is an interesting article on the same issue:
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=3
The website is pretty good in general as is the podcast. One only has to look at the Fit owner's post further up the thread to see why the Insight doesn't sell. Gas would have to be much more expensive to make up for for increase in price and decrease in practicality over a Fit.
Meanwhile, Honda still will not bring a diesel TSX wagon to our shores and the current Accord is nearly as large as a Chrysler 300.
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=3
The website is pretty good in general as is the podcast. One only has to look at the Fit owner's post further up the thread to see why the Insight doesn't sell. Gas would have to be much more expensive to make up for for increase in price and decrease in practicality over a Fit.
Meanwhile, Honda still will not bring a diesel TSX wagon to our shores and the current Accord is nearly as large as a Chrysler 300.
02-04-2010, 07:35 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Feb 4 2010, 09:28 AM
Not sure what you mean. I said the Honda Accord Hybrid came out as a hybrid attached to a V6. That is what they did. The fuel economy was approximately 20% better than a V6 equipped Accord, but still barely 30 mpg in real world tests. IF they would have had the IMA coupled with the I4 engine (& the much higher fuel mileage), they probably would have sold many more units
I do know in several tests (Motor Week, Car & Driver, R&T, etc) the differential was about 4 mpg+ between the 2 cars. And EPA ratings are larger than that.
As for the roofline & not being an issue unless you have rear seat passengers. Not sure why I would be driving this kind of 4 door car if I didn't have occasional 4 passengers.
I feel the Insight was a shot at the previous generation Prius & in many ways they made a better car, but in terms of rear seat leg room they missed, & also the technical gadgetry the Honda is a bit more spartan than the Prius.
Car & Driver Comparo
I do know in several tests (Motor Week, Car & Driver, R&T, etc) the differential was about 4 mpg+ between the 2 cars. And EPA ratings are larger than that.
As for the roofline & not being an issue unless you have rear seat passengers. Not sure why I would be driving this kind of 4 door car if I didn't have occasional 4 passengers.
I feel the Insight was a shot at the previous generation Prius & in many ways they made a better car, but in terms of rear seat leg room they missed, & also the technical gadgetry the Honda is a bit more spartan than the Prius.
Car & Driver Comparo
With regards to the fuel efficiency numbers that come from magazines I think those aren't representative of the average driver. First and foremost, the sample size is way too small, and second they come from a specific group of car driver. That is, those drivers have the drive it like you stole it mentality since they aren't paying for gas, maintenance, and insurance. If only the average driver were so blessed! Looking at the data from people who actually own the cars and drive them for regular commutes, it shows that the Insight II and Prius III fuel efficiencies are similar. Remember, my analysis was composed of ~70 samples per car consisting of lifetime (albeit, short as both were 2010 models) mpg.
As to why one would buy a 5 door hatch when one only has 1 passenger to shuttle around? Well, having an extra set of doors is convenient. It gives the consumer more options. I had a coupe before and sure it looks more aggressive but it simply was a hassle to deal with especially on the rare occasions that I did have a backseat passenger.
You do realize that the comparo you posted placed the Insight above the Prius right?
02-04-2010, 08:16 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by airgate,Feb 4 2010, 07:51 AM
Opinions are like...well, you know the saying.
If it makes any difference, I also find the rest of Toyota's branded (ie "Toyota", not Scion or Lexus) car line to be a disaster. The Corolla is at best OK. The Camry is a blob with a strange nose and a low rent interior that markedly cheaper than what they used in my '86 and '91 Camrys. The Avalon is harmless but quite forgettable. The Prius seems to be strange for the sake of strange. I'm not talking about the overall shape which is done for aerodynamics, I'm talking about the styling details.
Toyota hasn't quite screwed up as bad as Acura but they are a long way from good.
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
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I wouldn't say Toyota is as bad as Acura in the styling department. Not even close. There's ugly and then there's Acura, Toyota is just making a lot of completely normal ugly cars.
And in regards to real world gas mileage... fueleconomy.gov observed mileage is always nearly identical between the Prius and Insight. My guess is that the lower capacity Insight hybrid system its overtaxed by the less stop-and-go EPA test than it is by the more stop-and-go real world driving where it gets to recharge every six blocks.
More importantly, the Jetta diesel also seems to do better in real world mileage. Too bad Honda can't get its clean diesel tech to pass EPA in an economical fashion.
And in regards to real world gas mileage... fueleconomy.gov observed mileage is always nearly identical between the Prius and Insight. My guess is that the lower capacity Insight hybrid system its overtaxed by the less stop-and-go EPA test than it is by the more stop-and-go real world driving where it gets to recharge every six blocks.
More importantly, the Jetta diesel also seems to do better in real world mileage. Too bad Honda can't get its clean diesel tech to pass EPA in an economical fashion.
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