corey415

Honda started their hybrid development with the first iteration of IMA for the Insight I. It was the first hybrid to hit the market in 1999.

The Honda Accord Hybrid came out in late 2004. It used the IMA + VCM coupled to a V6. So I think you are confused regarding the history...

But look at the analysis I did on page 1 of this thread. The real world fuel economy between IMA and HSD is very similar. Honda achieves their end results with lower complexity and cost.

Honda should have made the roofline higher for the Insight II. For the buyers who don't have rear seat passengers it isn't an issue.

rockville

Oh I agree that their mileage is similar. However, the Prius is a larger car.

s2kpdx01

yeah, but the prius weighs almost 300 lbs more and is a larger car. that is the rub on the insight.

TommyDeVito

A bunch of fail. Honda has lost the plot.

corey415

Yeah but the Insight II is cheaper. Honda could have made the car larger, added more battery capacity, at increased cost to the end user. I believe fuel efficiency in this case still would have been similar to the Prius III.

My point was that people are bashing Honda's hybrid approach without driving their cars or looking at the actual performance data. I feel that the Insight II isn't selling well for reasons other than its hybrid technology.

medicalstudent

I think 100k is a good assumption. I have a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid currently at 115k miles. The car is throwing codes indicating that the IMA battery is failing (already knew that with the multiple recalibrations and multiple forced regens). I drive all highway and was expecting 150k for my HCHII And no I don't live in a state where warranty last to 150k either

Honda is charging $2k (battery/labor included) which is nowhere near as bad as the former $4k pricetag. Sure, I saved more money vs a regular Civic since I routinely get 55mpg (calculated; 53mpg per car's gauge) and amassed a lot of miles. But having to replace the battery sooner completely negates the money saved. I would've been better off buying a Civic Si, hypermile it, and not worry about major maintenance issues until 200k. I'll never buy a hybrid again. They're only useful for leasing IMO.

Pointblank

I have an 09 fit, and see no reason why I should have purchased an Insight instead. I like the material on the seats better, get great gas mileage, and a mini mini-van amount of cargo space. I have fun tossing it around corners, it's not a speed demon but it goes well enough to giggle when I take it to redline, and I think it looks cooler than the insight. The Fit really cannibalized the insight I think.

Also, the Prius' are cool looking cars. In this thread someone said the Prius 3.0 got hit with an ugly stick, but I think it looks rather futuristic and aggressive.

Fanman

Not sure what you mean. I said the Honda Accord Hybrid came out as a hybrid attached to a V6. That is what they did. The fuel economy was approximately 20% better than a V6 equipped Accord, but still barely 30 mpg in real world tests. IF they would have had the IMA coupled with the I4 engine (& the much higher fuel mileage), they probably would have sold many more units

I do know in several tests (Motor Week, Car & Driver, R&T, etc) the differential was about 4 mpg+ between the 2 cars. And EPA ratings are larger than that.

As for the roofline & not being an issue unless you have rear seat passengers. Not sure why I would be driving this kind of 4 door car if I didn't have occasional 4 passengers.

I feel the Insight was a shot at the previous generation Prius & in many ways they made a better car, but in terms of rear seat leg room they missed, & also the technical gadgetry the Honda is a bit more spartan than the Prius.

Car & Driver Comparo

rockville

I said it got hit with the ugly stick because I think it got hit with the ugly stick. The tall rectangular fog light openings look odd. Lot's of strange creases.

I can see how some people might not find them offensive but cool? Nope, not at all.

Yup, ugly stick.

airgate

Opinions are like...well, you know the saying.