jimbogxp

Let's see here...

Honda offers homely reliable appliances that are typically underpowered compared to the competition. Yet sales are down. Hmmm. What am I missing? They should be flying off the lots.

JonBoy

<sigh> Sales aren't down. They're just not growing, as a percentage of prior sales, as much as SOME of the other automakers. Hyundai was significantly off last month, right after they released the new Sonata. What happened there?

Underpowered? The Odyssey, Accord, CR-V, Civic, Pilot, and Fit (ie, their best-selling models) are all right there with the competition (usually within 5 hp). Perhaps you could give some examples of their mainstream cars that are underpowered?

Chris S

Until Honda comes out w/ a worthy S2000 successor, I don't see me buying another Honda car.

JonBoy

Let me give some more stats, so we can see who is and isn't taking market share, based on Q1 sales comparisons

Honda
2009 - 230,985
2010 - 256,412
Improvement - 25,427 new sales

Hyundai
2009 - 95,984
2010 - 111,509
Improvement - 15,525 new sales

Ford
2009 - 281,491
2010 - 385,643
Improvement - 104,152 new sales

GM
2009 - 500,514
2010 - 585,601
Improvement - 85,087 new sales

Toyota
2009 - 359,782
2010 - 385,686
Improvement - 25,904 new sales

So, Honda and Toyota are virtually tied, with both of them beating Hyundai handily for new sales improvements. Note that Toyota has roughly 4x the number of fleet sales that Honda has while Hyundai is more like 6-7x the number of fleet sales. Ford leads the pack in new sales with GM a close second. However, those two are both selling 35%+ of their passenger cars to fleet customers (!!!) so actual improvements in sales to consumers aren't known and I don't have the time to break it down to car vs truck sales and then work it out from there.

Either way, based on these stats, we need to be bashing Hyundai because they're taking the least number of new sales while mighty Toyota is barely beating Honda.

Proceed.

Chris S

^^^ Nobody looks at absolute #'s: what matters is the % growth and your growth multiple vs. the market.

Silverstreak HX

[QUOTE=jimbogxp,Apr 13 2010, 10:39 PM]Let's see here...

Honda offers homely reliable appliances that are typically underpowered compared to the competition.

JonBoy

Unless you're Audi and Honda, apparently, both of which have said they'll pursue profits over absolute "growth" in sales.

That said, these "growth" numbers are so misleading due to fleet sales vs consumer sales that they're useless. Honda's share of the consumer market is still quite high and its percentage of sales to consumers is arguably highest (as a percentage of total sales) of all the "mainstream" manufacturers.

Pick your poison. Stats are so easily biased or misinterpreted that it's easy to spin. I can make any manufacturer look bad with stats. My point is, Honda has picked up more sales than Hyundai, nearly matched Toyota for new sales and still maintained (by far) the lowest incentive levels of any mainstream manufacturer.

They obviously suck and are sliding into oblivion.

flyingelbowz

Honda makes nothing exciting. Let's look at what they've done the past 2 years. S2000 gone. Can't order Civic Si's at dealers currently (model might be discontinued rumor). So they have no more sports or sport-type cars.

Next....ruined the TL. Went from looker to puker. ZDX and Crosstour....a niche market at best....both being ugly doesn't help. CR-Z....no K20...no care and most people will not be interested in a slow-brid as a sports car. Insight....pretty fugly....Prius trumps it in every way, even though the Insight is cheaper...it just doesn't deliver the economy it should vs. a regular more roomier Civic.

Honda lost it's way. They've had sport models for every line for the past couple of decades and now they don't. They went to the Toyota way of making appliances. People don't want appliances...they want passion....that's what Honda USED to have.

hyperpm

Latest C&D had latest Hyundai Sonata taking 1st in mid size sedan comparo over Honda Accord.

berlinablackie

I have to agree with Chris S here. %'s count a lot. If your market growth rate is less than that of your competition, you have a problem.

Hyundai's growth as a percentage is twice that of Toyotas and nearly twice Honda's. If I worked in marketing for Honda/Toyota, I would be concerned why Hyundai sales grew at a more significant rate than my sales. Soon, my 'absolute numbers' won't be positive.