rnye

Boring company that makes boring cars for boring people.

Bring back Type R models, S2000, etc. I'm still amazed how they just abandoned the enthusiast market after creating such a faithful fan base.

I suppose they did finally cough up the NSX after years of dry heaving..

TheDonEffect

Honda has been slipping for a while now. Will a fun to drive civic necessarily cost more than a not fun to drive civic? I'd venture no, but it does require more R&D (which could increase cost, could) to zero in on the details to make the interface and consumer touch points more engaging. Mazda could do it, why can't Honda? But why does Mazda not sell and Honda does? Well Americans buy based on name pretty much. Remember, there was a time when the domestics sold based on name, and rested on their laurels, and then the 80s and 90s happened. Back then, Honda built even their entry level hatchbacks with a purpose, and that propelled them in sales and market perception. So what happened? If you don't study history you're doomed to repeat it. Remember the 2012 honda civic? Honda openly came out and apologized for it. The cars have been getting more and more watered down until arguably this one, which oh btw the engine has a recall on due to a qc issue. Does any of this sound like the Honda you know?
Fact is Honda can't make a competitive emotional vehicle. Whether they should or not, Jonboy will point to sales data that they shouldn't, is irrelevant, the topic here is whether or not Honda makes fun vehicles, not whether or not they should or if they're in trouble for not doing it. They can't, they're boring, and they still sell based on a brand who built its image during a time when they did build emotional cars. Now while the competition isn't beating Honda any time soon, any growth trend is a loss to Honda. So when you see people buying a Fusion, or a Sonata, or an ST, or whatever, that's one less sell that could've been a honda, or toyota for that matter. Let's see honda make a rwd platform and actually compete against the 3 series and IS. Honda in the luxury arena makes value based vehicles for the sensible buyers, but lacks really any sex appeal. But hey, the MDX is still selling, great vehicle at that too.
And btw, Honda's qc has gone down considerably, the panel gap fitment these days are becoming Ford-esque. But don't take my word for it, pay attention next time you see a new Honda. I wasn't aware of it myself until it was pointed out to me, then I googled, then I knew. The reason I'd buy an Accord over any other of its competition isn't necessarily because the way it looks or that this mid size sedan is more fun than the next, I trust that the resale value is going to be good and the car will give me zero problems. Keep up the qc issues and suddenly a 10 year warranty from hyundai makes a lot more sense. Perception can change, remember VW was the darling of the progressive types and here we ar. I think Honda is starting to realize that.

Silverstreak HX

Hell it ain't just Honda . Look at all the cars that fit the fun sporty category that are gone - Eclipse,3000GT,Probe,RSX,Integra,S2000,240SX,Celic a,Supra,Prelude, and Scirocco,Corrado.
Now everything is the same cookie cutter sedan , SUV , or truck. Dang near everything looks the same .
The 2 door market had STYLE and that is what I miss the most . Sure the performance and technology of todays cars might be better but they sure do HAVE NO STYLE to them!

Bullwings

One could easily say the same of BMW and that they lost their way post-2005.

Anyway, I agree with the argument about what the current market of drivers want - technology. Kids these days don't rush to the DMV on their 16th b-day to go take their driver's test. They're more concerned with having the latest galaxy/iphone than they are with driving.

In fact, for a large chunk of the market, the less driver involvement necessary, the better. I have no numbers to support this claim, but I'd venture to say that there are more supporters in favor of autonomous driving vehicles than there are detractors against it.

rnye

I agree with this post. However, BMW is probably still THE most performance oriented mainstream brand out there. They offer almost every car with a manual and the performance figures are sublime from bottom to top. The "tech" aspect is what I don't care for. An M6/Alpina 6 is a beautiful car, but overladen with shit that will break sooner than later.

My cousin works for a huge BMW dealer and can score me a hell of a deal on almost any new BMW... But nothing does it for me quite like the old school analogue offerings, especially at the cost. Hence why I have an old M5 and M roadster. That said, compared to Audi, Mercedes and Lexus - cars like the M2/3/4 are still some of the best in class.

FearlessFife

Honda shifted it's focus in making cars to parallel the market, pure and simple. Now that the market and cars have been over teched and gadgetfied, the focus can go back to what it once was.

Saki GT

Stop sale and a recall I think, but Honda has had its share of recalls over the recent years across many products.

Style is subjective, but most modern cars do certainly lack character. Without the badges, you'd be hard pressed to really tell one manufacturer from another.

TheDonEffect

Mitsu still has, rather had forgot they just discontinued it and that company is starting to circle down the drain, the EVO, Ford in lieu of the the Probe now has the focus/fiesta ST which imo is an upgrade, Honda has the SI and CRZ which according to Jonboy is a hoot to drive, Nissan has the Z and GTR, Toyota makes the FRS and a new supra is coming plus they got the F variant Lexuses, the Scirocco still exists just not here and we have the GTI and R variants not to mention the audi cars.
I agree though, not alot of two door options out there, but they're still out there if you look domestic or german. Who's missing...oh right, the CRZ and Si are awesome!

TheDonEffect

True, but Cadillac seems to have cracked the code on the intangible driver feel thing that BMWs were renowned for, and article after article the Cadillacs are being touted as the driver car while the BMWs are refined. Give it another generation. I'm with you, the new BMWs, minus the M2 and even then, do nothing for me. I salivate over the GT350 even with its terrible panel gaps lol.

vader1

They fell into the same mode Toyota did. "Sports/performance cars don't make any or as much money as plain old transportation appliances."

They do bring interest, generate free publicity, and make people pay attention, put them in showrooms and make them congregate around your cars at the auto show. Cadillac is an example of a brand that had ghost towns for showrooms and a couple 80 years olds leaning against their tennis-ball footed walkers at their display at the auto show until they brought out the CTS.

If you brand does nothing for people with a pulse, your customer base ages until you become Buick.

I don't fall into the crowd that thinks you need a $100,000+ halo car, but affordable performance helps diversify your portfolio.