Hiccup in Private Party Sale
10-28-2015, 05:04 AM
#11
Such is life when buying from a private party.
Compression test (optional IMO), review of service records, and a body shop inspection. Chances are if the records & mileage are clear & documented; mechanically, the car should be sound. Having a clear understanding of any body or paint work completes the picture.
Compression test (optional IMO), review of service records, and a body shop inspection. Chances are if the records & mileage are clear & documented; mechanically, the car should be sound. Having a clear understanding of any body or paint work completes the picture.
10-28-2015, 05:15 AM
#12
So don't keep us on the edge of our seats here, what is this car that you purchased?
10-28-2015, 05:30 AM
#13
Most $300 PPI's aren't as thorough as you think, rarely do they include compression test, leakdown, actually removing anything to look at parts (undertrays etc) they are usually just visual inspections and plug in to the computer/ECU to look for over revs, stored codes etc and maybe a paint depth reading if you're lucky.
Most the time you can tell if the car was maintained and taken care of by driving it and looking at it for a few minutes on a lift. I would have left a refundable deposit as an agreement to hold/buy the car pending the results of the PPI that way the seller typically won't speak with other parties and knows you're a serious buyer.
Most the time you can tell if the car was maintained and taken care of by driving it and looking at it for a few minutes on a lift. I would have left a refundable deposit as an agreement to hold/buy the car pending the results of the PPI that way the seller typically won't speak with other parties and knows you're a serious buyer.
10-28-2015, 06:33 AM
#14
Thanks for all the feedback... I tried to address some of the pertinent comments and questions below.
Based on my recent experience as a plaintiff in a small claims case, I have learned that it probably would not be worth my time and effort to attempt enforcing an agreement about post-sale fixes.
The mechanic was first come, first served so we arrived when they opened and the car was first to go into a bay. The engine is a 2JZ-GE, so getting the spark plugs out and doing a compression test requires splitting the intake that goes over the engine, which takes some serious shop time (and expense). I called around and other places were actually more expensive, including one that wanted around $500! It seems shop time is higher than national averages in my area. The seller was an older lady whose son posted the ad, so she didn't even know how to take it down when I asked her. She seemed fairly wealthy and annoyed with fielding calls and texts from sub-10k car buyers, which ultimately worked in my favor.
I could have done a compression test on an S2000, no problem. But, I am only now familiar with how to remove enough engine parts to do one on this car. Even now, it would probably take me hours and it be unnerving for me taking apart all that stuff with a seller looking over my shoulder.
Thanks for the rule(s) of thumb... very interesting thoughts. I was mostly adamant about getting a thorough inspection because the car was in storage for three years. It seems that years without operating can lead to the deterioration of many things, so I didn't want to overlook anything. We had what I thought was a solid verbal agreement. The seller made the good faith step of driving the car to a mechanic of my choice, and I paid for the inspection. It was my mistake that I did not know how long the mechanic would take to do the inspection... both the seller and I thought it would take half that amount of time. In any event, I don't think the seller was annoyed with leaving the car as I picked a mechanic near a train station so both of us could get to work easily.
I could not imagine being any more prompt with this seller. I responded within a hour of the ad posting to craigslist and a few hours later agreed to purchase the car at the asking price. I was not a low baller, flakey, or a joy rider. I had money ready to go and showed up (at the inspection) ready to buy. I think by the time the seller realized her asking price was low, the car was already in the shop, so I doubt the inspection impacted the seller's thinking. My mind was made up to buy... it just that the seller did not make up her mind right away.
The seller misspelled the make or model (cannot remember which), so I don't think she got a bunch of offers until after she updated the ad, which happened after the PPI.
This was my father's take on things. I really need a reliable daily driver for work, so I didn't want to increase my risk of car trouble. Plus, the previous car I found on craiglist literally did not have enough engine oil for the dipstick to touch. It was so low, I declined to test drive it. Of course, the seller filled the engine with oil and re-advertised with "a fresh oil change" so that experience reinforced my desire to make sure everything was mechanically as it appeared.
It is a Lexus IS300 SportCross. I just posted about it in the "daily driver" thread:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/107...#entry23787837
I think you are right about $300 PPIs not being thorough. I'm skeptical by nature, but the mechanic said a bunch of things needed to be replaced on the car, based solely on the lack of CarFax records. Lexus does a great job of keeping dealer service records so I knew most of those things actually were done, but it still lowered my confidence in the information the mechanic gave me.
Do inspections really cost $300? 3 hours also seems long. Is there someplace that would maybe do it for less or at least knock it out right away so you'd only be there an hour? Also just because someone gets offers for more doesn't mean any of those buyers will come through. With the next person maybe ask that they take down the posting when you go for the inspection. I would also throw some guilt at the seller since you paid for the inspection that may work.
Unless you were after a high end car (north of $30,000), I do not think a $300, 3 hour long ppi is really necessary in most cases. Perhaps if getting a compression test, make that the main focus and have them quickly go over everything else, rather than slowly and methodically. Pick your target area to have them inspect after having test driven and looking over the car yourself as best you can. Perhaps as a rule of thumb, the ppi should not ever exceed much over 1-1.5% of the car's value, perhaps this will only work with a car valued $10,000-$30,000 (1% tops for anything greater). Otherwise, perhaps no more than 2-4% tops (say for a $2,000-$6,000 car). And I totally just made up these numbers, but they do seem logical.
Did you do anything wrong? I don't think so, a ppi is almost always smart for those of us less inclined to do repairs ourselves. And you wanted to play it safe rather than end up sorry with a car you shouldn't have purchased. However, if you didn't have at the very least a solid verbal agreement between you and the seller, you certainly should have at that point.
Did the seller do anything wrong? Not by leaving necessarily (though I probably wouldn't want to leave mine--perhaps depends on what it is?), but if you shook on a deal (which you should have pending the inspection), by going with the highest bidder instead of a verbal agreement you and the seller shook on, I would say that is pretty selfish on their part.
My recommendation to anyone in the future potentially finding themselves in a similar situation would be to call the shop/ mechanic ahead of time, asking for a quote and how long to expect the inspection to take. And relaying that news to the seller (as far as time goes), so you can both plan accordingly. If you told the seller to expect a quick inspection and it ended up taking three hours, I can see their frustration. If you told them it was going to be a very thorough inspection including a compression test that will take up to three hours, they would have had no reason to be upset should the inspection last exactly three hours.
Did you do anything wrong? I don't think so, a ppi is almost always smart for those of us less inclined to do repairs ourselves. And you wanted to play it safe rather than end up sorry with a car you shouldn't have purchased. However, if you didn't have at the very least a solid verbal agreement between you and the seller, you certainly should have at that point.
Did the seller do anything wrong? Not by leaving necessarily (though I probably wouldn't want to leave mine--perhaps depends on what it is?), but if you shook on a deal (which you should have pending the inspection), by going with the highest bidder instead of a verbal agreement you and the seller shook on, I would say that is pretty selfish on their part.
My recommendation to anyone in the future potentially finding themselves in a similar situation would be to call the shop/ mechanic ahead of time, asking for a quote and how long to expect the inspection to take. And relaying that news to the seller (as far as time goes), so you can both plan accordingly. If you told the seller to expect a quick inspection and it ended up taking three hours, I can see their frustration. If you told them it was going to be a very thorough inspection including a compression test that will take up to three hours, they would have had no reason to be upset should the inspection last exactly three hours.
Thanks for the rule(s) of thumb... very interesting thoughts. I was mostly adamant about getting a thorough inspection because the car was in storage for three years. It seems that years without operating can lead to the deterioration of many things, so I didn't want to overlook anything. We had what I thought was a solid verbal agreement. The seller made the good faith step of driving the car to a mechanic of my choice, and I paid for the inspection. It was my mistake that I did not know how long the mechanic would take to do the inspection... both the seller and I thought it would take half that amount of time. In any event, I don't think the seller was annoyed with leaving the car as I picked a mechanic near a train station so both of us could get to work easily.
What does he really owe you guys?
I mean common. Let's get real. When I sold my S2000 I had 5 people lined up for the day. Some people wanted to wait until later in the day, others wanted to give me a few grand and hold it while they got the rest of the cash. Guess who got the car? The guy who showed ready to buy? Would I really have let my mint car sit at a shop? No way. What of my time as the seller?
Similar thing happened when selling a sedan. Got a lot of low ballers, flakers and joy riders.
Let's all get real. Car buying is a messy experience, new, used and private party. You reduced one set of risks on what sounds like a mint car but failed to see the other risk, car sells before you make up your mind.
I mean common. Let's get real. When I sold my S2000 I had 5 people lined up for the day. Some people wanted to wait until later in the day, others wanted to give me a few grand and hold it while they got the rest of the cash. Guess who got the car? The guy who showed ready to buy? Would I really have let my mint car sit at a shop? No way. What of my time as the seller?
Similar thing happened when selling a sedan. Got a lot of low ballers, flakers and joy riders.
Let's all get real. Car buying is a messy experience, new, used and private party. You reduced one set of risks on what sounds like a mint car but failed to see the other risk, car sells before you make up your mind.
Such is life when buying from a private party.
Compression test (optional IMO), review of service records, and a body shop inspection. Chances are if the records & mileage are clear & documented; mechanically, the car should be sound. Having a clear understanding of any body or paint work completes the picture.
Compression test (optional IMO), review of service records, and a body shop inspection. Chances are if the records & mileage are clear & documented; mechanically, the car should be sound. Having a clear understanding of any body or paint work completes the picture.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/107...#entry23787837
Most $300 PPI's aren't as thorough as you think, rarely do they include compression test, leakdown, actually removing anything to look at parts (undertrays etc) they are usually just visual inspections and plug in to the computer/ECU to look for over revs, stored codes etc and maybe a paint depth reading if you're lucky.
Most the time you can tell if the car was maintained and taken care of by driving it and looking at it for a few minutes on a lift. I would have left a refundable deposit as an agreement to hold/buy the car pending the results of the PPI that way the seller typically won't speak with other parties and knows you're a serious buyer.
Most the time you can tell if the car was maintained and taken care of by driving it and looking at it for a few minutes on a lift. I would have left a refundable deposit as an agreement to hold/buy the car pending the results of the PPI that way the seller typically won't speak with other parties and knows you're a serious buyer.
10-28-2015, 06:45 AM
#15
Congrats on the purchase. Those are pretty rare!
10-28-2015, 08:33 AM
#16
I had a similar experience buying my S2000 from a private seller. However, he was very professional about it and no drama accompanied the transaction.
What I did was after I did my own visual inspection of the vehicle, and agreed on a price (which took about a day), I had him take his ad off CL BEFORE I booked the PPI. I knew this was critical, because I didn't want him inundated with offers after the fact. We both knew exactly how long the PPI was going to be (1 shop hr), and he agreed to take the vehicle there himself. The shop also gave me the option of sharing the results with the seller, which I elected NOT TO DO SO. I only told him that the PPI came out good (no details), and that I'd be purchasing the vehicle as is. In hindsight, I shouldn't have said anything.
The only hiccup for me was that he didn't have a title on hand during this whole process, and I didn't know that until AFTER the PPI. I chose NOT to take delivery of the vehicle until he received his new title from the DMV, which took an agonizing week and a half. There are many horror stories of cars without titles on the internet. I decided not to become a statistic.
But the seller was very professional and true to his word. He did not put the ad back on CL during the entire time we waited for the title, which I appreciated. Trust me, I looked. On delivery day, I met him at a local branch of my bank, and handed him a cashier's check. He handed me the keys and title.
I think your mistake was not to have the seller take the ad OFF CL after you agreed on a price. I've lost a few deals on camera gear because of this mistake, so that's where I learned most of this stuff. I don't want to say you can't trust people, but you have to put yourself in their shoes and realize that anything goes when it comes to money.
Congrats on your purchase!
What I did was after I did my own visual inspection of the vehicle, and agreed on a price (which took about a day), I had him take his ad off CL BEFORE I booked the PPI. I knew this was critical, because I didn't want him inundated with offers after the fact. We both knew exactly how long the PPI was going to be (1 shop hr), and he agreed to take the vehicle there himself. The shop also gave me the option of sharing the results with the seller, which I elected NOT TO DO SO. I only told him that the PPI came out good (no details), and that I'd be purchasing the vehicle as is. In hindsight, I shouldn't have said anything.
The only hiccup for me was that he didn't have a title on hand during this whole process, and I didn't know that until AFTER the PPI. I chose NOT to take delivery of the vehicle until he received his new title from the DMV, which took an agonizing week and a half. There are many horror stories of cars without titles on the internet. I decided not to become a statistic.
But the seller was very professional and true to his word. He did not put the ad back on CL during the entire time we waited for the title, which I appreciated. Trust me, I looked. On delivery day, I met him at a local branch of my bank, and handed him a cashier's check. He handed me the keys and title.
I think your mistake was not to have the seller take the ad OFF CL after you agreed on a price. I've lost a few deals on camera gear because of this mistake, so that's where I learned most of this stuff. I don't want to say you can't trust people, but you have to put yourself in their shoes and realize that anything goes when it comes to money.
Congrats on your purchase!
10-28-2015, 08:49 AM
#17
Registered User
I would think a buyer would be in line to ask for the ad to be pulled during the PPI. A buyer's willingness to pay for a PPI serves as good evidence to me that buyer is serious.
If I was buying, I'd want the seller to be present for the PPI (along with myself) for the entire duration (even if it was 3 hours). If the seller happens to back out during the PPI, then walk away and leave the cost on them!
If I was buying, I'd want the seller to be present for the PPI (along with myself) for the entire duration (even if it was 3 hours). If the seller happens to back out during the PPI, then walk away and leave the cost on them!
10-28-2015, 09:30 AM
#18
Thanks for the congrats!
Asking the seller to remove the ad is exactly what I did when I bought my S years ago from a guy on this forum, and that worked great. This case was a little different for me. Since the seller's son created the ad, I don't think she was readily able to remove the ad by herself or through him. I am pretty sure she would have removed the ad if she could, because she complained to me about all the inquiries, but the ad remained on craiglist well after I purchased the car. You also make a good point about sharing PPI results... sellers probably can figure out that a PPI went well if a buyer is still interested, but I should not have allowed the mechanic to share PPI results as I did in this case...lesson learned!
You raise a good point about paying for the PPI. I have since wondered if I could have declined to pay for it if the seller backed out. I think the primary leverage for a mechanic is having (and retaining) possession of a car until payment is made. In the end, I might have been able to stick the seller with the PPI charge, but the seller certainly would not have then decided to sell the car to me. In a twisted way, I think paying for the inspection made the seller feel more compelled to sell me the car even though she had higher offers.
I had a similar experience buying my S2000 from a private seller. However, he was very professional about it and no drama accompanied the transaction.
What I did was after I did my own visual inspection of the vehicle, and agreed on a price (which took about a day), I had him take his ad off CL BEFORE I booked the PPI. I knew this was critical, because I didn't want him inundated with offers after the fact.
The shop also gave me the option of sharing the results with the seller, which I elected NOT TO DO SO. I only told him that the PPI came out good (no details), and that I'd be purchasing the vehicle as is. In hindsight, I shouldn't have said anything.
He did not put the ad back on CL during the entire time we waited for the title, which I appreciated. Trust me, I looked.
I think your mistake was not to have the seller take the ad OFF CL after you agreed on a price.
Congrats on your purchase!
What I did was after I did my own visual inspection of the vehicle, and agreed on a price (which took about a day), I had him take his ad off CL BEFORE I booked the PPI. I knew this was critical, because I didn't want him inundated with offers after the fact.
The shop also gave me the option of sharing the results with the seller, which I elected NOT TO DO SO. I only told him that the PPI came out good (no details), and that I'd be purchasing the vehicle as is. In hindsight, I shouldn't have said anything.
He did not put the ad back on CL during the entire time we waited for the title, which I appreciated. Trust me, I looked.
I think your mistake was not to have the seller take the ad OFF CL after you agreed on a price.
Congrats on your purchase!
I would think a buyer would be in line to ask for the ad to be pulled during the PPI. A buyer's willingness to pay for a PPI serves as good evidence to me that buyer is serious.
If I was buying, I'd want the seller to be present for the PPI (along with myself) for the entire duration (even if it was 3 hours). If the seller happens to back out during the PPI, then walk away and leave the cost on them!
If I was buying, I'd want the seller to be present for the PPI (along with myself) for the entire duration (even if it was 3 hours). If the seller happens to back out during the PPI, then walk away and leave the cost on them!
10-28-2015, 09:41 AM
#19
Hey, whatever works, man. I think most people are pretty honest. We just have to be up front and clear about how we want the deal to go down. I believe it helped when I laid out a timetable of how the whole purchase was going to happen (in my case, pull the ad, PPI, wait for title, meet at bank, etc, all the while keeping in constant verbal/email contact with them). I think it gives the seller more confidence in your ability to purchase the vehicle.
10-28-2015, 09:45 AM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2007
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When I sold my S2000 I had a bunch of offers. I went first come first serve and the kid was really nice. I had others call back and offer a couple thousand over what we agreed on but my word is good.
Two weeks later all my parts were on Craigslist (work wheels, suspension, etc) and then the car, back to stock, for 2.5k more than he paid.
People suck and I'm too nice.
Two weeks later all my parts were on Craigslist (work wheels, suspension, etc) and then the car, back to stock, for 2.5k more than he paid.
People suck and I'm too nice.