TommyDeVito

Newer version of what I’ve been daily driving for ten and a half years (Leaf). I’ll buy a CPO early next year, and grab a ‘24. EV’s depreciate like mad so buying new doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. I have plans to move to my 6 acres in the mountains and I’ll need the additional range a newer one will give me. I just went out and drove my twisties and 60% of my route is history. The pavement is ruined. Construction everywhere, subdivisions going in out the ass, Earth movers parked on the side of country, twisty, 2 lane road. I mean 4 different towns out there in rural land. Within 2 years they’ll be full on suburbs and the twisties will go the way of the dodo. I’ve been riding/driving those roads for over 2 decades and they are almost extinct. I hadn’t planned on buying land for 5 more years but this population explosion is forcing many decisions years early. I need to be working my $ on construction and getting my Morton built but seeing the way this car market is going I better pull the trigger and upgrade a little quicker. I had to the exact same thing last year when I bought my land. Killed me financially but my land has already doubled in value in just 12 months. It’s coming at me from every angle No twisties or corners to rip on the weekend to make this place doable, means I have to get the F out. Looking forward to upgrading the DD though as it will take me out of the new car market for 10+ years. It’s more about that, than getting something new. I wanted to wait.

TheDonEffect

I for one didn't dismiss it due to the styling, I applaud Tesla for taking a risk stylistically and the result is something far more interesting than yet another jelly bean on the road. Unfortunately, there is a ton of room for improvement, and its negative reception will probably just validate all the untalented suits at the other OEMs to continue to make bland, if not trendy vehicles.

Quikag, I assume you drove the Plaid? These vehicles do have mind numbing straightline performance, and pretty insane corner speed. It seems like everyone I know has at least cross shopped a Tesla, so I've had my share of recent experience with them and I think I figured out where I stand with them. My buddy just bought a Y Performance and was saying how much he loved the power and the handling. I didn't have the energy to explain the difference between handling and cornering speed, and it was at that moment I was able to articulate why these cars haven't clicked with me.

So the Plaid, and really any Tesla, has omg power, and can get you through a corner very quickly, certainly beyond my own abilities. If cars are amusement park rides, Teslas are rollercoasters, but not bumper/go karts. The Teslas I drove, I tried to upset them, get them to slide some, flirt with death a little, and the cars just wouldn't. It competently slow the car down quickly, even past an Apex point, and get the car to settle where it wants to be and get you through the corner. When I was with my buddy driving the Plaid, he was like dude slow down, and I told him seriously this thing is driving itself, I'm practically pinning the throttle and it's overriding me. I think people go into these cars with very low expectations, because if a GT3 handled this way everyone would be bashing it for the nannies being way too intrustive. You could pretty much keep gas pedal planted to the floor and hit the corner, and the car essentially would override you with its sophisticated self driving abilities and get you through the corner. Thing is though, with its low center of gravity and giant sticky tires, it still creates a ton of g force and cornering speed that you're not paying attention to the fact that it effectively is driving itself through the corner for you. There is no flirting with this car, it gives you what you want to the best of its abilities, but in doing so there's no substance or emotional connection.

The most satisfying things in life usually have to be earned, but mainstream society needs jolts of endorphines. It's why gambling is addicting, it gives you the illusion of achievement without actually having to do the work, as if the propensity of wasting money is a substitude for dedicated effort. Or why social media is addicting, getting likes feels like acknowledgement. It's why shopping is addicting, fashion gives people the satisfaction of being attractive without any of the healthy lifestyle choices that allow you to project a virile image that makes you sexually desirable.

The Teslas are thrilling, but they're not satisfying, and when you ride the rollercoaster several times, you eventually grow acclimated, if not bored. It's one step closer towards racing a car that's driving itself around the track and you're just there for the ride.

Now to the average consumer and to the majority of enthusiasts who think they're not an average consumer (BMW owners come to mind), it's fast and sporty, but eventually they too grow tired of it but fortunately there aren't too many compromises that will make them sell it like a two seat roadster or an unreliable whatever. Teslas are reliable (until the motor/battery break), very low maintenance, quiet, relatively luxurious, and offer a ton of practicality provided you have a good charging situation, very similar to what popularized the 3 series sedan, to the average consumer it felt like a have cake and eat it too situation.

Sure, I can see the appeal if my only two options were the CUV field and a Model Y, why someone would choose the Model Y. But if my options were whatever I can get for 35-50k, including multiple cars, I mean a used CRV leaves alot of funds for a fun second car. Sure, it may be ton slower, but alot more fun.

Anyway, my buddy can't seem to understand why I'm not enthused about the Y Performance when it's faster (straightline) than anything I've ever owned which include multiple V8s. To which I say yeah, I was raised on manuals and I prefer smaller, nimble cars when it comes to fun. In my cars in general, I like them being really good at what I need them to do be, and in doing so they become satisfying. For me a people hauler needs to be extremely practical, I need it to seemlessly blend into and enhance my lifestyle, be present without being noticed. Making them sporty comes with compromised ride, practicality, and usually costs.

Regarding the Cybertruck, I just don't think it can withstand the rigors of being used as an actual pickup. There is so many literal rough edges with the truck, and I really don't think that a vehicle of that size, weight, and all those sharp edges of relatively stiff metal should be available to the general mouth breathing public because I absolutely do not want to get hit by one of those things. Usually, big unruly things like that, like semi trucks, are slow to get up to speed, but that thing is faster than really everything out there, and idiots with money have access to them. At least when they crash their sportscars they usually only kill themselves, but these things are a different story.

Anecdotally, I find that the people who are most satisfied with their Teslas and keep them for a while, or repeatedly buy them are either Tesla fanatics, or they own other, usually several, vehicles and have the means to not have to be practical minded.

QUIKAG

The "Plaid" Cybertruck is the tri-motor Cyberbeast. So, the regular dual-motor Cybertruck is called Cybertruck and the 3-motor is called Cyberbeast. That is what I rented and it was fast AF launching as the video above shows.

There are compromises like the rear sightlights (non-existent, gotta use the rear camera which shows up some of the 18" screen real estate), the steel door edges where you could literally probably peel a potato, and not being able to see where the front-end ends as the windshield is like 6' in front of you. I will say all that real estate between the dashboard and the windshield houses a lot of speakers and the sound stage with the radio/music, etc. sounds outstanding.

Then, add in a very usable truck bed, decent rear seat space, and a powered frunk, and the Cybertruck is actually usable. Certainly as usable as any other Tesla. I honestly enjoyed it more than I expected. Functional, comfortable air suspension, very quick steering (crazy quick!), and azz-hauling ability made for a fun rollercoaster/actual usable truck combo.

I'm not getting one anytime soon, but I respect them more now as a hell of a first effort (with extremely 'unique' styling) truck from an EV automaker.

Honestly, anyone that drives one will at least walk away more impressed than before they drove it. It generally works as a comfy truck that just so happens to have some fun rollercoaster capabilities.

QUIKAG

Oh, and as far as Teslas go, they are competent, fast, and great at running around town. But, even though they are fast, they aren't sports cars. I'd like to drive the new Model 3 Performance. I bet it handles well, haul arse, brakes good, feels good, etc., but it won't have that visceral engagement you get from good ICE sports cars.

TheDonEffect

Yeah, the Cyberbeast is the Plaid level for the truck, reason I bring it up is because it's probably the most insane expression of what Tesla can do at the moment since it's the most power in the smallest form factor and I think what you're feeling is what I felt when after I drove one. It's just insane, the effortless amount of crazy power. Seriously, there are people who invest a ton of money making dedicate drag cars that can't do what the Plaid does over and over again, all while driving like a Lexus when you're not drag racing. They are indeed insane and I said that Plaid just rendered cars like the M5 pointless, and Teslas in general just obsoleted straight line muscle cars.

The truck though is a weird proposition, because it's a truck, so it's supposed to be rugged, and I just don't have confidence in its ruggedness. In a delicate luxury car, yeah awesome, but a vehicle that I want to rely on to take me somewhere remote and back, to throw dirty crap in the back, etc etc, I'm not sure how a Tesla would hold up to that. Early reports are suggesting that they're not that. This is not just a Tesla truck thing, I have the same reservations about Rivians. I'm not sure I want to take it off roading far off the grid, or just hosing out the back with carcass/fish juices everywhere, etc.

But as a suburban soccer dad mobile, I bet it would be a great option for Starbucks runs as most trucks are used for. I remember around here when the truck first was showing up in the wild, people were excited, people stopped in their tracks to check it out, take photos, etc. Now we see them often enough no one really pays attention to them anymore, most of the time people sorta point and chuckle at them now. You would see them at Cars and Coffee but not anymore. I think the novelty has worn off, but they are still insanely fast, and still exotic looking, I dunno, feels like more of a truck that would be in a rap video than a country video.

I think that's sorta why I like the Raptor, it still does alot of the truck stuff very well minus towing. I would absolutely take one of those off the grid camping.

QUIKAG

I would take a Raptor over a Cybertruck for back country and off-grid camping FOR NOW. As Tesla does, the Cybertruck will undergo continuous iterative updates over the next several years and most weak spots/deficiencies will be resolved. So, down the road, the CT could arguably be safer/more reliable than an ICE truck (as long as you don't run out of juice). There just isn't as much stuff to break. I do think some of the negative bad press of the CT is unwarranted or excessive. The one I drove with 7,500 Turo miles on it was rock solid. Zero squeaks, rattles, weirdness, anything. It just worked and worked very well. Plus, being able to drive a 2.6 second 0-60 truck and plug it in at the house versus adding $100+ of premium every fill-up is nice. My current electric plan is 8 cents/kw all-in. So, filling the whole 130kw battery would cost about $10. Also, at a job site, you could sit there with the AC and ventilated seats blasting all day long and use up a few percent of the battery versus idling a gas/diesel engine all day long. I like that a lot as I've never been a fan of idling an ICE for extended periods of time. Plus, being able to plus in the 240 and two normal plugs in the bed would help with some jobsite functions (power tools, compressor, etc.) too.

TheDonEffect

Well as a truck, one of my issues with the CT is that it pretty much eliminates the ability to load cargo from the sides of the bed, ability to add racks, and not sure how it will fair with tying down large items although I've seen some people already do it. The sharp edges will come into play some as it's being used as a work truck, the amount of times I bumped up against edges on edges and I consider myself a pretty careful dude.

I've also been around enough Teslas to know that they're not terribly durable when in the hands in the mass public, and not in the hands of upper class enthusiast-minded owners. Like how BMWs degrade pretty quickly when they're parked outside.

EV drivetrains are simple for sure, and can be fairly reliable. However, those motors on the CT/CB will die before 100k. It's pretty well documented with the Model Ss that the motors will die. Battery life is reasonable, but they don't last much longer, and there are enough of them that degrade well before their expected life expectancy. I appreciate the avant garde approach Tesla took, but frankly I wish they turned down power and just delivered something I'd feel supremely confident that would last for more than 100k miles.

While there may be fewer moving parts, there are countless battery cells that are relied upon to not malfunction, let alone go boom, to keep you moving as well. Internal gears of the electric motors have alot relying on them as well, which have alot of instant torque and a ton of weight stressing on them, I can't think of any other component of that relatively small size that undergoes the same amount of stress. It's just physics.

The running out of juice portion is significant, gas tends to be very predictable, and for the most part EVs as well, but if you're navigating large hills, sand, etc, with all that weight, with additional weight of passengers and gear, etc, range anxiety would be pretty high, and those remote areas don't tend to even have gas stations let alone charging stations.

I'd take the Raptor over the CT to do such functions, but frankly I'd take an LX, previous gen Jeeps, 4 Runners, etc etc etc over a Raptor simply because tried and true. Raptor for me would be simply because I could, but practically/realistically speaking even those are sorta asinine to take off the grid camping. Just like I don't see the point of rolling up to a job site in a Platinum F150, foremans could just as easily show up in a Miata but I suppose they want to relate to their workers by showing up in a pickup... that's pristine... with tan leather interiors... that cost more than 3x the salaries of their jobbers... I suppose they occasionally need to pick up supplies. People are funny.

Yes, one major benefit of EVs is the ability to sit in them with full functions on, something I do recommend to my friends with families since they can sit in comfort with the heater/ac on, screens on, etc. Women need to pump, kids need naps, etc.

TommyDeVito

I find that pretty irrelevant myself. You can afford an $80,000.00 - 100,000.00 vehicle then I think you can afford to fill it up for $100, even if that is often. I find it pretty amusing when Tesla owners bring up “saving money on gas”.

QUIKAG

It's still being "green", Tommy. Plus, saving $70-90 per fill-up is still money you can spend on hookers, blow, etc. instead.

QUIKAG

Yeah, who knows how it's going to play out on the reliability front. Our Tesla experience has been good so far. I will say with batteries, you can add the extra battery pack to the Cybertruck and maybe someday, get solar charging as well. So, worst case, you sit there for a few days waiting for the solar cells to charge the battery a bit before getting back out of the wilderness.

But, like you, give me an ICE truck for now and if I ever got a Cybertruck, it wouldn't be something I critically relied on for heavy truck/off-road stuff. It would be a comfy, Starbucks cruiser, to tote the wife, kids, and grocery runs from Central Market getting to park up on the curb like a Jeep for funzies. You know, like the poseur people that Tommy loves!