brockLT1

little do you know your S2K makes more torque to the wheels multiplied through gearing than the vette does until third. gearing is fun

Jacques79

Oh so your only measure of driving pleasure is looking at track times and straight line speed?

Nice.

There are however other people that value different things. People like say, S2000 owners...

Also, you can get one for 20K very easily. You're a total idiot if you buy an 03 Boxster S for 28K. You can get a 2005 Boxster S for that price.

Engine failures are overblown and people who are paranoid about them have either never owned one or are generally ignorant about cars. And to say that all Boxsters will inevitably experience engine failure tells me you're just ignorant.

A C6 base Corvette is also faster around a track than a Ferrari 355. But which do you think is more enjoyable to drive?

The 03 Boxster S has tremendous balance, braking ability, brake pedal FEEL, steering FEEL and response, good acceleration and the sensation of hearing that flat 6 right behind your ears is addictive, especially with the Porsche sports exhaust or a good aftermarket one. And I've driven tons of sports cars.

For 20K or so you get to experience driving pleasures that you would usually have driving exotics or much more expensive cars. I'm not saying the Boxster S is an exotic obviously, but it has some elements that make it feel more special than you average sports coupe.

TheDonEffect

Right... but the corvette in question is about 7000 bucks. Just under 20K isn't a bargain. It's like me saying wow, NA miatas are great cheap skate morsels since you could find good ones for 3000 bucks, then you go pffft, why get that when you could an ap2 for 15000!
The boxter S is hardly a forgotten performer btw.
And most people aren't worried about a catastrophic engine failure, most are worried about a lot of little things that cost a lot to fix going wrong.
I do agree with your feel comments though, although it is subjective, it does add a lot to the overall driving experience.

Malloric

Exactly, you can find 2000 model Boxter S for 12-15, which is on the high end of what you'd be paying for a '95 Corvette and less than you'd pay for a 2000 Corvette.

The only frequent "catastrophy" with the early Boxters is the rear main seal. It's an expensive fix, but it's not sudden, so unless you just ignore the growing puddle of oil in your garage isn't going to leave you with a blown engine.

And Don, you can really find C4 Vettes for $7,000 very often. I suspect any that you do have something wrong with them. It's much like finding a clean Miata for $3,000 or a clean AP1 for $8,000. Sure, you might get really lucky, but anyone with a brain and a decent car isn't going to sell the car for thousands less than they can easily get for it.

JonBoy

The C4 had 340 ft-lbs of torque. The S2000 has 162 ft-lbs of torque.

I have a hard time believing the S2000 is geared 209% higher than the Vette through the first two gears.

I looked up the data and the C4 has a 1st gear ratio of 2.68 and a second gear ratio of 1.80. It has a final drive ratio of 3.45. So, the C4 first gear total ratio is 9.246 and the second gear total ratio is 6.21, ignoring the primary reduction (I couldn't find it).

The S2000 (AP2 - tightest gearing) has a 1st gear ratio of 3.133 and a 2nd gear ratio of 2.045 with a primary reduction of 1.208 and a final drive of 4.10. Ignoring the primary reduction, the S2000 therefore has a first gear total ratio of 12.85 and a second gear total ratio of 8.38.

So, ignoring primary reduction, the Vette is actually putting 3143 ft-lbs and 2111 ft-lbs to the wheels in first and second gear respectively.

The S2000, ignoring primary reduction, is actually putting 2082 ft-lbs and 1358 ft-lbs to the wheels in first and second gear respectively.

In other words, the S2000 is 50% down on torque in 1st gear and 55% down in second gear without us knowing the primary reduction ratio for the C4 tranny. That must be a heck of a weak primary reduction in the Vette if indeed it is 50% taller than in the S2000.

The actual 1st and 2nd gears themselves are only 17% and 14% shorter in the S2000 than in the Vette. I don't see why the ratio would jump to 50%+ for the primary reduction gear in the Vette.

PedalFaster

Let's go to an independent third party to resolve this -- NADA.

I looked up prices for 1998 Corvettes and 2000 Boxster S's in my area. (Yes, I know that 1998 was the last year of Corvette production, and 2000 was the Boxster S's first, so most used Corvettes will be older, and most used Boxsters will be newer, but the point is to compare cars of comparable age.) Surprisingly, their retail values are within $650 of each other:

http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI...da=-1&mi=110000

http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI...&da=-1&mi=90000

That suggests that the two are very price comparable on the used market. I know which one I'd buy.

TheDonEffect

<scratches head> 97 was the first year of the c5, 98 would be the second year of the c5, making 96 the last year of the c4, so the prices will naturally jump quite a bit.
So if the 2000 boxster s and C4 vette were the same price, I'd take the boxster too, but we're now comparing c5 vs. boxsters... I'd rather taken the vette especially since I've seen mid gen cars going in the mid to low teens.
The point of this thread is that the forgotten C4 can be had for quite a bargain, kinda like stealths and 3000gts. Capable performers whose peers outshined them, but are respectable performers in their own right and with the horrible resale value make great bargains.

11Past9

That Boxster shit really ruined this thread. Feel this, feedback that, it sounds like you're just a Boxster fanboi. I know other cars that I'd rather have that are true drivers cars with all that "feel" and "feedback" on top of straight line performance and in the twisties as well...

C5 Corvette: Sorry bub, performance wise the Boxster isn't even in the same book. Stock for stock, mod for mod. I don't care if the interior sucks, or if it rattles. Remember about the "feeeeeling"? And it won't cost you $1,000 bucks to fix a sensor that felt like going bad out of no where

E36 M3: When it came out automobile magazine called it the best handling car, at any price. You can find a good one for $8-12,000 now. A REAL good one.

E46 M3: They dropped hard, $16-20,000 can get you a well maintained example

Mr2 Turbo: Mid engine, boost, toyota reliability, cheap... ok

I'm not going to list them all but a Boxster should not be on the list considering how damn expensive it is to fix ANYTHING on it, $12,000 - 15,000 for a 9-12 year old one or not.

Jacques79

Ok so now only cheap American big V8 cars that are inexpensive to fix can be posted?

Yes I am a Boxster S fanboy. I'm also a Mustang Cobra fanboy, an M3 fanboy, a Z3M fanboy, a Z4M fanboy, an S2000 fanboy, an Integra Type R fanboy, a WRX fanboy, a Miata fanboy, etc...

I like all sorts of cars and different types of cars give different types of driving pleasure.

You don't go in a Mustang Cobra looking for S2000-like shifting precision and at the same time you don't floor an S2000 looking for Cobra-like neck snapping acceleration.

PedalFaster

My mistake -- for some reason I was thinking the C4's last year was '99, not '96. Late model C4s aren't that much cheaper, though -- the difference is roughly four grand:

http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI...da=-1&mi=130000

Do you compete in sanctioned competition? Road racing? Autocross? If you don't, what difference does a half second on a timed lap matter? If you do, you should know that the Boxster S is an objectively faster autocross car to all of the cars you listed except for the C5 Corvette, so per your own reasoning, you should buy a Boxster.