Finally SOLD the s2000
#12
I've driven a few M's, though not specifically the newer E92 platform on the M (last M3 I drove was the E46), a Boxster S (assuming it's reasonably close to the Cayman experience), and plenty of Z06's.
I'll start with the most subjective element, the brand. If you're not bothered by driving a Chevy vs. a BMW vs. a Porsche, we'll move on.
I'm assuming the Z06 is the C6 version. The suspension by my assessment isn't much rougher than other stiffly sprung sportscars, and the M's I've been in ride pretty damn harsh, not worse, but not better).
If you don't need back seats, the M3 in my mind is right out. It's a great jack-of-all-trades, master of none. I think it will fall short of the P car on most subjective merits and not compete with the Z on most objective metrics.
The Z without a doubt is a fast, powerful performance car. You can uncork the 427 with just headers, intake and tune to about 575HP. Speaking of the engine, there's definitely something special about the 427 - it's *the* magic displacement for high performance Vettes historically). It's big, wide, accommodates huge rubber and sounds amazing.
On the downside, the experience spread over a wide range - let me elaborate using the S2000 as a reference. With the S, you're constantly rowing gears, the input and response through the shifter and steering is kinetic (for lack of better terms). Everything feels like it's happening fast - we drive ours around town, and in our small city, in the sub 45MPH context, it feels like it's 500HP.
The Z does 60MPH in _first_gear_. At 130MPH+ the steering feels pretty nice (because everything is happening faster), under 60, it feels sluggish. The Z sort of feels like it's built for driving dynamics and roads that just don't exist (legally speaking).
In the above examples, you can just plug in Boxster and it's the same sort of comparison. Maybe someone with a decent amount of Boxster and Cayman experience can frame how those compare, but I imagine it's close.
I have more spew, but I'm going for a run I might follow up with more later.
I'll start with the most subjective element, the brand. If you're not bothered by driving a Chevy vs. a BMW vs. a Porsche, we'll move on.
I'm assuming the Z06 is the C6 version. The suspension by my assessment isn't much rougher than other stiffly sprung sportscars, and the M's I've been in ride pretty damn harsh, not worse, but not better).
If you don't need back seats, the M3 in my mind is right out. It's a great jack-of-all-trades, master of none. I think it will fall short of the P car on most subjective merits and not compete with the Z on most objective metrics.
The Z without a doubt is a fast, powerful performance car. You can uncork the 427 with just headers, intake and tune to about 575HP. Speaking of the engine, there's definitely something special about the 427 - it's *the* magic displacement for high performance Vettes historically). It's big, wide, accommodates huge rubber and sounds amazing.
On the downside, the experience spread over a wide range - let me elaborate using the S2000 as a reference. With the S, you're constantly rowing gears, the input and response through the shifter and steering is kinetic (for lack of better terms). Everything feels like it's happening fast - we drive ours around town, and in our small city, in the sub 45MPH context, it feels like it's 500HP.
The Z does 60MPH in _first_gear_. At 130MPH+ the steering feels pretty nice (because everything is happening faster), under 60, it feels sluggish. The Z sort of feels like it's built for driving dynamics and roads that just don't exist (legally speaking).
In the above examples, you can just plug in Boxster and it's the same sort of comparison. Maybe someone with a decent amount of Boxster and Cayman experience can frame how those compare, but I imagine it's close.
I have more spew, but I'm going for a run I might follow up with more later.
#13
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Originally Posted by S2Kevint,Nov 2 2009, 09:04 AM
I also considered a used nissan gtr. But I heard maintenance on that thing is ridiculous. So unless I was misinformed, then thats sort of out of the picture. Otherwise, I would pick up a used nissan gtr in a heartbeat.
#14
All 3 are very different cars and special in their own way. You need to drive all 3 and you'll know for sure when you factor in your priorities.
#16
Do you have a price target?
I've seen some clean, low mileage '06 Z06s down in the mid 40's which is a goddam steal for that level of performance.
A quick look at '09 GT-Rs shows me used (<10K mile) cars in the mid-upper 60's.
Note that's comparing across 3 model years too, which is part of the delta, but I was thinking a few years probably isn't a big thing.
The Z06 and GT-R while both big fast vehicles, deliver the experience radically different.
I've seen some clean, low mileage '06 Z06s down in the mid 40's which is a goddam steal for that level of performance.
A quick look at '09 GT-Rs shows me used (<10K mile) cars in the mid-upper 60's.
Note that's comparing across 3 model years too, which is part of the delta, but I was thinking a few years probably isn't a big thing.
The Z06 and GT-R while both big fast vehicles, deliver the experience radically different.
#17
DRIVEN THEM ALL
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
Mid engine is incredible compared to front engine. the noise comes from the back.
the weight is in the middle and very very neutral.. theres a difference in a company who is strictly into making sports cars.... compared to making all types of cars. yes i know a cayenne exists but thats besides the majority of the other vehicles.
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
Mid engine is incredible compared to front engine. the noise comes from the back.
the weight is in the middle and very very neutral.. theres a difference in a company who is strictly into making sports cars.... compared to making all types of cars. yes i know a cayenne exists but thats besides the majority of the other vehicles.
#18
Originally Posted by jhp012,Nov 2 2009, 02:35 PM
DRIVEN THEM ALL
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
Mid engine is incredible compared to front engine. the noise comes from the back.
the weight is in the middle and very very neutral.. theres a difference in a company who is strictly into making sports cars.... compared to making all types of cars. yes i know a cayenne exists but thats besides the majority of the other vehicles.
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
Mid engine is incredible compared to front engine. the noise comes from the back.
the weight is in the middle and very very neutral.. theres a difference in a company who is strictly into making sports cars.... compared to making all types of cars. yes i know a cayenne exists but thats besides the majority of the other vehicles.
C6 Z06 curb weight: 3175
Yes, 200 pounds is a lot. But it is not that much by today's standards.
#19
Originally Posted by jhp012,Nov 2 2009, 02:35 PM
DRIVEN THEM ALL
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
PORSCHE WINS ALL !!!! BY NO COMPARISON.
m3 = not really a sports car more of a tourer.
Corvette= just to big and heavy
cayman S = pure sports car.
by your standards, the F430 is also too big and heavy.
it weighs even more than the Z06.
http://www.rsportscars.com/ferrari/2007-ferrari-f430/