February 2012 Sales
03-05-2012, 12:53 PM
#42
Dammit. This has to stop!
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
#44
Registered User
Originally Posted by slusoccer00' timestamp='1330980553' post='21479058
Wow... As one of the toughest market segments, there should be debates. Each car has their pros and cons. I'm sorry the car is not up to your "high" standards and but there's actually a difference, let us common folk duke it out.
In all seriousness, if Hyundai gave us Canadians a 10yr/100K mile powertrain warranty like the USA, I think the Elantra would be a clear choice over the Civic (as it sits right now). By the time you hit the mileage/age limit of the Hyundai warranty, both cars would be fairly worthless anyways (a few grand is probably not a big deal at that point) and the Hyundai's heated rear seats and nicer-looking interior would probably trump any potential issues with the powertrain (covered under warranty). I do value reliability, safety and fuel economy but of the three, only fuel economy is a real variable between the Civic and the Elantra.
03-05-2012, 01:10 PM
#45
I had an Si, the one that got laughed at, EP3. I loved that little car because it separated itself from everyone else. The shifts, even though thought to be awkward, weren't at all. Extremely reliable, although this has no relevance to today's Si, I liked them. I really think a lot of people are sticking with Honda based off past experiences and couple that in with crazy incentives, people are then buying them.
It's like an old favorite sandwich shop, this sandwich shop was amazing growing up but another one was built across the street. Went about their ways for a period of time and then started noticing the competition gaining a larger market shares because of customer appreciation programs, in response then started cutting some higher quality materials/options (Coke Product/Pepsi Product... cheaper price - I don't drink either so flame on, or specialized paper products to generic paper products) to hold their margins. Majority of customers deal with it and continue to go but lose some customers to across the street, quality of cheeses/meats is then reduced, lose even more people. Coupons introduced and people return but find the product is not worth the coupon and return to across the street. Overall image damaged. I hope I make sense.
Case in point, Neal over at Temple of VTEC created a big stir when he bought a new Elantra over a Civic because he just couldn't get past the value. He created an even bigger stir when, three months later, he got rid of it because it was just no fun to drive, despite all the options and features over a Civc.
Since we are on the topic Civic vs Elantra, I would like to find how many Elantra's were bought in 2011/2012 vs prior years and do the same with the Honda Civic. Considering Hyundai has just started changing from Top to Bottom we really won't really see how the market has shifted till another year or two, even if it has at all. If Hyundai has grown (don't actually know) say 30%, someone had to have taken a hit. Who is that car company? What did Elantra owners previously drive? My brother bought a new Elantra, he had 2010 Accord EX.
In terms of the Elantra and Civic for the last two calendar years, sales numbers are below.
Elantra - 186,361 (2011) and 132,246 (2010) for a total of 318,607
Civic - 221,235 (2011) and 260,218 (2010) for a total of 481,453
At first glance, that looks like the Civic lost out (and it did) but not necessarily due to competition. Up to March 2011 (right before the tsunami/earthquake in Japan), the Civic was selling 19.5% MORE than it did in 2010 and was on pace to sell over 300K cars for the year. Production in April dropped to nearly 50% and got down into the 20% range for a few months before slowly climbing back up (and then dropping again in November due to flooding in Thailand).
I will post more about who is gaining actual consumer sales in my next post.
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
#46
Okay, I posted this in another thread a while back and it's only relevant up to March 2011.
Through March 2011, the automotive year-to-date sales were as follows:
Chrysler +23% (52K cars)
Toyota +11% (48K cars)
Honda +18.5% (52K cars)
Ford +16% (95K cars)
GM +26% (122K cars)
Hyundai +28% (32K cars)
Kia 36.6% (28K cars)
Mazda 15% (9K cars)
Volkswagen 15% (9K cars)
Subaru 17% (10K cars)
Nissan 25% (57K cars)
So, when you look at it, who grabbed the lion's share of new vehicle sales compared to the last year? GM and Ford, by a large margin. Their percentages for Year-Over-Year growth aren't as sexy as some others but the absolute number of new sales is huge. That's one thing to remember is that it's "easy" to grow when you've had minimal (comparative) sales in the previous year, like Kia. However, the absolute gain of new market share is far less for Kia as compared to many others. Per those numbers and excluding other brands (boutique and low-volume brands ignored), the ranking of new sales (ie, captured new sales to consumers and fleets) are listed below.
1. GM
2. Ford
3. Nissan
4. Honda/Chrysler
5. Toyota
6. Hyundai
7. Kia
8. Subaru
9. Volkswagen/Mazda
Also remember, these sales include FLEET sales. Ford and GM have FLEET sales of more than 15% in any given year and Ford hit 35% (!!!) for March 2011 alone, allowing them to beat GM for the first time in quite a while for monthly sales. Hyundai had 13% FLEET sales up through March 2011, which indicates that 15K of their sales were not new private consumer sales! Honda FLEET sales? 1% (roughly 2800 vehicles).
So, Honda has gained almost pure CONSUMER sales (not FLEET sales) where their margins are far higher and their resale values won't get hammered. Makes for a strong bottom line, if a somewhat boring (yet reliable) lineup. Hyundai recently introduced pricing holds and lower incentives on their cars in an effort to bolster their resale values. Smart move, really - short term pain (potentially) with some lost sales but your customers will tend to be more loyal if their vehicles hold value come trade-in or selling time.
Last I checked (February), Honda had actually dropped from a 9.9% market share to a 9.6% market share, primarily due to poor Accord sales (typically their best selling vehicle, followed by the Civic and CR-V). It still ranks top four (occasionally top one or two) in its segment but it's not consistent as the new Camry, Passat and moderately new Sonata have presented more modern alternatives. The Altima has been flying off lots thanks to massive incentives - been #1 or #2 for four months now, I think!
Through March 2011, the automotive year-to-date sales were as follows:
Chrysler +23% (52K cars)
Toyota +11% (48K cars)
Honda +18.5% (52K cars)
Ford +16% (95K cars)
GM +26% (122K cars)
Hyundai +28% (32K cars)
Kia 36.6% (28K cars)
Mazda 15% (9K cars)
Volkswagen 15% (9K cars)
Subaru 17% (10K cars)
Nissan 25% (57K cars)
So, when you look at it, who grabbed the lion's share of new vehicle sales compared to the last year? GM and Ford, by a large margin. Their percentages for Year-Over-Year growth aren't as sexy as some others but the absolute number of new sales is huge. That's one thing to remember is that it's "easy" to grow when you've had minimal (comparative) sales in the previous year, like Kia. However, the absolute gain of new market share is far less for Kia as compared to many others. Per those numbers and excluding other brands (boutique and low-volume brands ignored), the ranking of new sales (ie, captured new sales to consumers and fleets) are listed below.
1. GM
2. Ford
3. Nissan
4. Honda/Chrysler
5. Toyota
6. Hyundai
7. Kia
8. Subaru
9. Volkswagen/Mazda
Also remember, these sales include FLEET sales. Ford and GM have FLEET sales of more than 15% in any given year and Ford hit 35% (!!!) for March 2011 alone, allowing them to beat GM for the first time in quite a while for monthly sales. Hyundai had 13% FLEET sales up through March 2011, which indicates that 15K of their sales were not new private consumer sales! Honda FLEET sales? 1% (roughly 2800 vehicles).
So, Honda has gained almost pure CONSUMER sales (not FLEET sales) where their margins are far higher and their resale values won't get hammered. Makes for a strong bottom line, if a somewhat boring (yet reliable) lineup. Hyundai recently introduced pricing holds and lower incentives on their cars in an effort to bolster their resale values. Smart move, really - short term pain (potentially) with some lost sales but your customers will tend to be more loyal if their vehicles hold value come trade-in or selling time.
Last I checked (February), Honda had actually dropped from a 9.9% market share to a 9.6% market share, primarily due to poor Accord sales (typically their best selling vehicle, followed by the Civic and CR-V). It still ranks top four (occasionally top one or two) in its segment but it's not consistent as the new Camry, Passat and moderately new Sonata have presented more modern alternatives. The Altima has been flying off lots thanks to massive incentives - been #1 or #2 for four months now, I think!
03-05-2012, 01:20 PM
#47
Some more light reading on fleet sales vs consumer sales:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...0/#more-381104
And more, from 2009
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...0/#more-381104
And more, from 2009
03-05-2012, 01:52 PM
#49
North American sales only. I posted them quite a while ago and had to search to find them - I didn't just find it all online just now. I have a complex about accurate data, absolutely!
03-05-2012, 02:33 PM
#50
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Okay, I posted this in another thread a while back and it's only relevant up to March 2011.
Through March 2011, the automotive year-to-date sales were as follows:
Chrysler +23% (52K cars)
Toyota +11% (48K cars)
Honda +18.5% (52K cars)
Ford +16% (95K cars)
GM +26% (122K cars)
Hyundai +28% (32K cars)
Kia 36.6% (28K cars)
Mazda 15% (9K cars)
Volkswagen 15% (9K cars)
Subaru 17% (10K cars)
Nissan 25% (57K cars)
So, when you look at it, who grabbed the lion's share of new vehicle sales compared to the last year? GM and Ford, by a large margin. Their percentages for Year-Over-Year growth aren't as sexy as some others but the absolute number of new sales is huge. That's one thing to remember is that it's "easy" to grow when you've had minimal (comparative) sales in the previous year, like Kia. However, the absolute gain of new market share is far less for Kia as compared to many others. Per those numbers and excluding other brands (boutique and low-volume brands ignored), the ranking of new sales (ie, captured new sales to consumers and fleets) are listed below.
1. GM
2. Ford
3. Nissan
4. Honda/Chrysler
5. Toyota
6. Hyundai
7. Kia
8. Subaru
9. Volkswagen/Mazda
Also remember, these sales include FLEET sales. Ford and GM have FLEET sales of more than 15% in any given year and Ford hit 35% (!!!) for March 2011 alone, allowing them to beat GM for the first time in quite a while for monthly sales. Hyundai had 13% FLEET sales up through March 2011, which indicates that 15K of their sales were not new private consumer sales! Honda FLEET sales? 1% (roughly 2800 vehicles).
So, Honda has gained almost pure CONSUMER sales (not FLEET sales) where their margins are far higher and their resale values won't get hammered. Makes for a strong bottom line, if a somewhat boring (yet reliable) lineup. Hyundai recently introduced pricing holds and lower incentives on their cars in an effort to bolster their resale values. Smart move, really - short term pain (potentially) with some lost sales but your customers will tend to be more loyal if their vehicles hold value come trade-in or selling time.
Last I checked (February), Honda had actually dropped from a 9.9% market share to a 9.6% market share, primarily due to poor Accord sales (typically their best selling vehicle, followed by the Civic and CR-V). It still ranks top four (occasionally top one or two) in its segment but it's not consistent as the new Camry, Passat and moderately new Sonata have presented more modern alternatives. The Altima has been flying off lots thanks to massive incentives - been #1 or #2 for four months now, I think!
Through March 2011, the automotive year-to-date sales were as follows:
Chrysler +23% (52K cars)
Toyota +11% (48K cars)
Honda +18.5% (52K cars)
Ford +16% (95K cars)
GM +26% (122K cars)
Hyundai +28% (32K cars)
Kia 36.6% (28K cars)
Mazda 15% (9K cars)
Volkswagen 15% (9K cars)
Subaru 17% (10K cars)
Nissan 25% (57K cars)
So, when you look at it, who grabbed the lion's share of new vehicle sales compared to the last year? GM and Ford, by a large margin. Their percentages for Year-Over-Year growth aren't as sexy as some others but the absolute number of new sales is huge. That's one thing to remember is that it's "easy" to grow when you've had minimal (comparative) sales in the previous year, like Kia. However, the absolute gain of new market share is far less for Kia as compared to many others. Per those numbers and excluding other brands (boutique and low-volume brands ignored), the ranking of new sales (ie, captured new sales to consumers and fleets) are listed below.
1. GM
2. Ford
3. Nissan
4. Honda/Chrysler
5. Toyota
6. Hyundai
7. Kia
8. Subaru
9. Volkswagen/Mazda
Also remember, these sales include FLEET sales. Ford and GM have FLEET sales of more than 15% in any given year and Ford hit 35% (!!!) for March 2011 alone, allowing them to beat GM for the first time in quite a while for monthly sales. Hyundai had 13% FLEET sales up through March 2011, which indicates that 15K of their sales were not new private consumer sales! Honda FLEET sales? 1% (roughly 2800 vehicles).
So, Honda has gained almost pure CONSUMER sales (not FLEET sales) where their margins are far higher and their resale values won't get hammered. Makes for a strong bottom line, if a somewhat boring (yet reliable) lineup. Hyundai recently introduced pricing holds and lower incentives on their cars in an effort to bolster their resale values. Smart move, really - short term pain (potentially) with some lost sales but your customers will tend to be more loyal if their vehicles hold value come trade-in or selling time.
Last I checked (February), Honda had actually dropped from a 9.9% market share to a 9.6% market share, primarily due to poor Accord sales (typically their best selling vehicle, followed by the Civic and CR-V). It still ranks top four (occasionally top one or two) in its segment but it's not consistent as the new Camry, Passat and moderately new Sonata have presented more modern alternatives. The Altima has been flying off lots thanks to massive incentives - been #1 or #2 for four months now, I think!
Jonboy, I think you are working hard to paint a rosier picture for Honda than really exists. Honda does have some issues but they are likely sound enough to weather the problems. If they address the lack luster styling (Accord, all of Acura) and interiors that got cheaper rather than nicer from one generation to the next (Civic) the company will bounce back nicely because they haven't alienated a bunch of customers, just disappointed them. I know you are a Honda fan boy and proud of it but that's cool. You aren't a jerk about it, you are respectful and you do provide data... even if we don't agree with it.