Ever wonder why Honda
02-13-2006, 12:14 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Penforhire,Feb 11 2006, 03:38 PM
The Lexus LF-A concept looks like a supercar to me. But the original question has to be, IMO, because the Japanese companies don't see the value in a "halo" car. If it doesn't return-on-investment then it was a poor investment. I assume they don't value the intangible value as much.
Toyota killed the Supra when it was still at the top of its game just because sales didn't meet expectations. Mazda did the same to the RX7. Honda refused to invest much in keeping the NSX up-to-date. If anything, I am surprised Honda made the AP2 S2000 but I think they were looking to pick up sales from buyers who 'almost' decided on the AP1 model but wanted something less high-strung.
They'd rather come out with watered-down crap like the latest MR2 at a price point where they sell to the masses.
Toyota killed the Supra when it was still at the top of its game just because sales didn't meet expectations. Mazda did the same to the RX7. Honda refused to invest much in keeping the NSX up-to-date. If anything, I am surprised Honda made the AP2 S2000 but I think they were looking to pick up sales from buyers who 'almost' decided on the AP1 model but wanted something less high-strung.
They'd rather come out with watered-down crap like the latest MR2 at a price point where they sell to the masses.
When the above cars were on the market, the only supercars on sale were the Ferrari F50, the Bugatti EB110, the Lamborghini Diablo, the McLaren F1, and a few other European exotics that I overlooked.
02-13-2006, 01:24 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by slicksilver,Feb 13 2006, 05:14 PM
The Supra, RX7 and 300ZX were not supercars. The NSX was not a supercar.
those cars were being mentioned in the same breath as corvette/911 back in the day.
02-13-2006, 02:04 PM
#53
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They were still "halo" cars, more than just a notch above the rest of their line. Doesn't matter that the world might not consider them "supercars."
Besides, anyone who thinks the last RX7TT isn't as good a performer as most of its "supercar" contemporaries wasn't paying attention. It barely loses out to the C5 Z06 at auto-x.
Besides, anyone who thinks the last RX7TT isn't as good a performer as most of its "supercar" contemporaries wasn't paying attention. It barely loses out to the C5 Z06 at auto-x.
02-13-2006, 04:37 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by steve c,Feb 13 2006, 04:59 PM
That's just complete hogwash -- akin to saying all southern white men are racists or all Mexicans are lazy.
Or the Japanese don't build a sports car worth 40k....
Porsche is still heavily involved in motorsports -- and the base Boxster makes 240hp and starts at 45 grand.
Or the Japanese don't build a sports car worth 40k....
Porsche is still heavily involved in motorsports -- and the base Boxster makes 240hp and starts at 45 grand.
I'm also not sure I follow your logic w/the Mexicans and Sothern Whites. Steve--be honest--are you a drunk union worker who posts on this forum on one of your 12 daily breaks?
Well you're right about worth. And this is what I mean about idealistic. Someone doesn't spend 7 figures on a vintage Ferrari because of what the car does. They pay that much for what it IS. For the same reason Lawyers and Doctors pay 30K for Harley's. 10K is for the bike and 20K is for the bragging rights. The Japanese approach 'supercars' (all sports cars for that matter) with the attitude that if they can out perform and out engineer a competitor that they'll win in the marketplace. That recipe is logical to me--and that's how I make MY decisions on what car I want. However, companies like Porsche and Ferrari realize that if you inject a car with significance completely unrelated to the mechanicals themselves, you can dramatically increase the value of the car. This creates a momentum that can carry a manufacturer for decades. The original 215hp Boxters were selling so fast at 60K for the first few years that there was a 3 month waiting list where I live. Obviously people weren't buying them for just their performance. The Hell's Angels and biker gangs in the 50s, 60s and 70s imbedded an association between Outlaws and HD bikes that has carried the manufacturer on for the past two decades. And what have the Japanese manufacturers done directly to prime a market to spend 120K on a supercar?
Well they continue to plug away and rely on their engineering perfection and 'sensibility will win' IDEALISM. The aftermarket has done more to modify consumer opinion of Japanese sportcars than anything--and not all positive, either. I believe that Honda made a brilliant move with the last generation Civics. The tuning crowd was changing the Honda brand negatively (after 10 years of being irritated by slammed 105db Civics and Accords people do, believe it or not, begin associating being retarded with the "H" symbol). So they started building cars that nobody wanted to tune so they could control their brand the way they saw fit (with a focus on reliability, economy and sensibility).
And I may be wrong--but I don't think any Porsches being campaigned are directly funded by Porsche.
02-13-2006, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nobody,Feb 14 2006, 01:37 AM
The original 215hp Boxters were selling so fast at 60K for the first few years that there was a 3 month waiting list where I live.
Originally Posted by Nobody,Feb 14 2006, 01:37 AM
And I may be wrong--but I don't think any Porsches being campaigned are directly funded by Porsche.
Porsche RS Spyder
02-13-2006, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Green Tea,Feb 13 2006, 08:35 PM
It depends on the condition you're racing under, track is far better measure than cone racing in my opinon. And i'm not referring to those japanese tracks where its all tight and small with very little room to even overtake a car. Most cars are tested on the nurburgring and car companies are always trying to overtake each other as the fastest around the nurburgring. It is a good measure of everything, and even on the nurburgring, the 350z is about 15 seconds faster than the s2k. Yet the s2k is in a higher class than the 350z in autocrossing.
Take it anyway you want, granted it's not easy to just test it under the same conditions, driver, etc.
02-14-2006, 05:00 AM
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also even if they were to produce a super car, they would not give it to us... remember we are the bad end of the stick. They hate giving us their pride and joy, the type-r's. Also as much as we wanted it to, alot of people would say "Who the hells gonna pay 50+ g's for a Honda?" because people still think Honda was as bad as it was in the 80s. I personally would think this would be great but honda just hates us lol. They should just keep on building the nsx