Ever wonder why Honda
02-10-2006, 11:50 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Uber-s2k,Feb 10 2006, 12:46 PM
While I would love to agree with that statement, the sales of the NSX (specifically in the US) over the last couple years tells a different story.
consumers are smart.
there are alot of faster cars for much less.
NSX is slower than cars that cost $30K.
02-10-2006, 11:51 AM
#12
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So, here's my weird $.02:
Japan's economy is relatively new (esp. compared to Europe). There are people over in Europe (and here, and in the Middle East) who have generational wealth to piss away on cars.
The Japanese are insanely frugal. I'd suspect that there's *relatively* low internal demand for a supercar (I'm no sociologist nor economist).
Japan's business notions are heavily steeped in tradtion. To make a supercar, you really have to have an individual (read: nutjob) at the helm who has a vision, and the ability to act on it. This is not congruent with the old Japanese notion of teamwork. The closest Honda came was letting their F1 designer build a roadcar, and that was under the more benign auspice of an "engineering exercise."
The only other Japanese supercar made with a "Nutjob Genius in charge" that *I* can think of is the Tommykaira.
Ultimately, the supercar market is filled with noble (pardon the pun) attempts. Many of them fail, or, just don't have the kind of success enjoyed by Ferrari or Porsche.
As far as Honda, Toyota, or Renault-Nissan; If I were head of a company, let alone a public company, I have to answer to my shareholders. They will be disappointed at any project that doesn't show a clear value-added proposition. So, I'll forgive reluctance to enter into a market that is often a loosing proposition than not.
Japan's economy is relatively new (esp. compared to Europe). There are people over in Europe (and here, and in the Middle East) who have generational wealth to piss away on cars.
The Japanese are insanely frugal. I'd suspect that there's *relatively* low internal demand for a supercar (I'm no sociologist nor economist).
Japan's business notions are heavily steeped in tradtion. To make a supercar, you really have to have an individual (read: nutjob) at the helm who has a vision, and the ability to act on it. This is not congruent with the old Japanese notion of teamwork. The closest Honda came was letting their F1 designer build a roadcar, and that was under the more benign auspice of an "engineering exercise."
The only other Japanese supercar made with a "Nutjob Genius in charge" that *I* can think of is the Tommykaira.
Ultimately, the supercar market is filled with noble (pardon the pun) attempts. Many of them fail, or, just don't have the kind of success enjoyed by Ferrari or Porsche.
As far as Honda, Toyota, or Renault-Nissan; If I were head of a company, let alone a public company, I have to answer to my shareholders. They will be disappointed at any project that doesn't show a clear value-added proposition. So, I'll forgive reluctance to enter into a market that is often a loosing proposition than not.
02-10-2006, 12:17 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by khuezee,Feb 10 2006, 10:41 AM
a ferrari or lambo for 1/4th the price
02-10-2006, 01:17 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by protokultur,Feb 10 2006, 05:17 PM
Nope, ya don't get it. The price is 9/10ths of the experience for most buyers.
02-10-2006, 01:34 PM
#15
Reliability has zero to do with it. Your average super car is fine in that department, GM and Porsche have proven that time and again.
No, for a long time now it has been why spend 100k when the NSX looks and performs like it was designed in the 80's.
no rich snop would be able to get over the idea of spending over 100 k for a HONDA or TOYOTA. "Why spend 100k on a Honda when i can own a Porsche!"
02-10-2006, 02:33 PM
#16
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Lexus
Acura
and Infiniti can do this.
But they are not going to exceed the the 70k to 110k range.
Inf/Nissan is starting things up with the GTR and Toyota/Lexus
has a hot car in the works as well.
Acura
and Infiniti can do this.
But they are not going to exceed the the 70k to 110k range.
Inf/Nissan is starting things up with the GTR and Toyota/Lexus
has a hot car in the works as well.
02-11-2006, 08:36 AM
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The only true luxury brand from the Japanese is Lexus. Acura and Infiniti do not have true luxury status. If any of the Japanese companies attempted to create a supercar, $150K+ range, then it would be Lexus. They are setup to provide the superior service and performance from owning such a car. The Ford GT was able to sell well because it rooted itself in the glory of the past image as a marketing tool, not that the car is not good, but the Ford brand needed help. Anyway, I do think in the future the Japanese will create supercars for their brands. They have solved the cost/reliability issue and now they can go to power/performance holy grail.
02-11-2006, 08:45 AM
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You guys have to consider something when you ask this question: all the storied exotic American and European marques - even the ones that haven't produced a single new car in decades (Maybach) - have a history built on extravagance, luxury and prestige starting in the early 20th century, i.e. the birth of cars as we know them.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsu, etc., their involvement in WWII notwithstanding, are still pretty new to the game if you look at just time. They were rolling Japanese conglomerates in Japan before the War, but they didn't regain speed *internationally* until about a decade after the conflict.
This is in part why people don't think Honda or Toyota when it comes to supercars. It's also partly why Nissan rebranded itself Datsun for the US market for 15 years. It's partially true that such wealthy owners will just say "it's a Honda" or "it's a Toyota". I know a few *somewhat* wealthy people that have supercars, but drive a Honda or Infiniti daily to work.
I think it just gets down to the fact that when storied makes like Bugatti, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes and others were competing on the western (read: international) world stage back in the early 20th century, Japan's own storied makes were focused on *just* Japan. This is why we find their home market cars so strange. That sort of self-focus Japan evidenced before the two World Wars continues today, to my mind, and it's partly why they haven't yet been accepted into that stratospheric level.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsu, etc., their involvement in WWII notwithstanding, are still pretty new to the game if you look at just time. They were rolling Japanese conglomerates in Japan before the War, but they didn't regain speed *internationally* until about a decade after the conflict.
This is in part why people don't think Honda or Toyota when it comes to supercars. It's also partly why Nissan rebranded itself Datsun for the US market for 15 years. It's partially true that such wealthy owners will just say "it's a Honda" or "it's a Toyota". I know a few *somewhat* wealthy people that have supercars, but drive a Honda or Infiniti daily to work.
I think it just gets down to the fact that when storied makes like Bugatti, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes and others were competing on the western (read: international) world stage back in the early 20th century, Japan's own storied makes were focused on *just* Japan. This is why we find their home market cars so strange. That sort of self-focus Japan evidenced before the two World Wars continues today, to my mind, and it's partly why they haven't yet been accepted into that stratospheric level.