europe's answer to oil prices
05-05-2008, 01:05 PM
#11
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Despite all the screaming I still don't see any change in American preferences. A few people are picking up things like the Fit/Yaris, most of the people you see in a Prius didn't buy it because of the price of gas....
And GPMike, i'm loving your hypocrisy there. Not to be a dick, but someone has to call you out. You claim we waste billions upon billions on useless social programs (which do not benefit you) and then say we should instead waste that billions on social programs that DO benefit you. Those "idiot liberals" also tend to be the only proponents of public transit. Myself I'm more a fan of the free market. If there was a societal will for public transit then people would pay for it without a socialist program forcing them to do so. I could take public transit and it'd be cheaper than driving to work, but I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a day than deal with the hassle.
And GPMike, i'm loving your hypocrisy there. Not to be a dick, but someone has to call you out. You claim we waste billions upon billions on useless social programs (which do not benefit you) and then say we should instead waste that billions on social programs that DO benefit you. Those "idiot liberals" also tend to be the only proponents of public transit. Myself I'm more a fan of the free market. If there was a societal will for public transit then people would pay for it without a socialist program forcing them to do so. I could take public transit and it'd be cheaper than driving to work, but I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a day than deal with the hassle.
05-05-2008, 01:05 PM
#12
It's true that we could have great public transport, but after living in Scandinavia for a few years, it makes a lot more sense there as a solution than it does in the US.
European cities were comletely developed long before cars, shopping malls, and suburbs with .25 acre plots for everyone. Everything had to be within walking distance or it was too long a commute, and it's only recent in their history that things have been otherwise.
Our cities developed more heavily around cheap, convenient, relatively long-distance commutes we've been able to afford for so long, so we're a society that's much more dependent on energy for transportation. If that's a bad thing, move downtown to a small apartment and sell the car-get your taste of European living in Finland.
In the US, for populated metro areas like NYC or DC, public transport makes a lot of sense--that's why we have it there to some degree. But in places like Tulsa, Oklahoma, it just doesn't make sense. And in cities like that, sometimes I think: which is worse--one empty bus driving around, or 20-40 empty cars parked? Because if buses don't run every 15 minutes, I won't wait--I'd almost prefer to ride a bike--and if they do run that often, they'll usually be empty in small cites with a driver on salary and fuel burning.
Maybe public transport could work here if we reworked it (ie small buses more often or something), but we're a rich nation and the majority of US citizens seem to prefer the freedom of not waiting, at least with their wallets. We'll buy a 'green' car long before we'll downsize the house and take the bus.
European cities were comletely developed long before cars, shopping malls, and suburbs with .25 acre plots for everyone. Everything had to be within walking distance or it was too long a commute, and it's only recent in their history that things have been otherwise.
Our cities developed more heavily around cheap, convenient, relatively long-distance commutes we've been able to afford for so long, so we're a society that's much more dependent on energy for transportation. If that's a bad thing, move downtown to a small apartment and sell the car-get your taste of European living in Finland.
In the US, for populated metro areas like NYC or DC, public transport makes a lot of sense--that's why we have it there to some degree. But in places like Tulsa, Oklahoma, it just doesn't make sense. And in cities like that, sometimes I think: which is worse--one empty bus driving around, or 20-40 empty cars parked? Because if buses don't run every 15 minutes, I won't wait--I'd almost prefer to ride a bike--and if they do run that often, they'll usually be empty in small cites with a driver on salary and fuel burning.
Maybe public transport could work here if we reworked it (ie small buses more often or something), but we're a rich nation and the majority of US citizens seem to prefer the freedom of not waiting, at least with their wallets. We'll buy a 'green' car long before we'll downsize the house and take the bus.
05-05-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dombey,May 5 2008, 12:40 PM
^^^ right, that's what I'm referring to. The OIL companies, not the GAS companies. I think the GAS companies will do what they've been doing - passing the cost onto the consumer.
05-05-2008, 02:29 PM
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In the Bay Area, some people are willing to pay to downsize their lifestyle to transition from more expensive fuel cost.
They moved out of their 3000+ sq ft home 50+ miles away from their job and now living in condos/townhouse that cost about the same. Their commutes are now less than 10 miles. Their fuel cost saving more than $500/month. And they are spending more time with family than sitting in traffic everyday.
What a concept, right?
They moved out of their 3000+ sq ft home 50+ miles away from their job and now living in condos/townhouse that cost about the same. Their commutes are now less than 10 miles. Their fuel cost saving more than $500/month. And they are spending more time with family than sitting in traffic everyday.
What a concept, right?
05-05-2008, 02:41 PM
#16
Originally Posted by marthafokker,May 5 2008, 04:29 PM
In the Bay Area, some people are willing to pay to downsize their lifestyle to transition from more expensive fuel cost.
They moved out of their 3000+ sq ft home 50+ miles away from their job and now living in condos/townhouse that cost about the same. Their commutes are now less than 10 miles. Their fuel cost saving more than $500/month. And they are spending more time with family than sitting in traffic everyday.
What a concept, right?
They moved out of their 3000+ sq ft home 50+ miles away from their job and now living in condos/townhouse that cost about the same. Their commutes are now less than 10 miles. Their fuel cost saving more than $500/month. And they are spending more time with family than sitting in traffic everyday.
What a concept, right?
05-05-2008, 02:58 PM
#17
Originally Posted by s2kpdx01,May 5 2008, 11:32 AM
^+1
Trying to say it works in europe so it should work here and vice versa just doesn't make sense in a lot of cases. People just drive a lot less on avg there. That is how they get around their high fuel prices. IF you only had to drive 6000 miles a year $6/gallon would be cheaper then 12,000 miles at $4/gallon. A higher population density means buses and trains work better.
Trying to say it works in europe so it should work here and vice versa just doesn't make sense in a lot of cases. People just drive a lot less on avg there. That is how they get around their high fuel prices. IF you only had to drive 6000 miles a year $6/gallon would be cheaper then 12,000 miles at $4/gallon. A higher population density means buses and trains work better.
05-05-2008, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wickerbill,May 5 2008, 11:30 AM
Europe isn't nearly as spread out as the US is.
European countries are tiny and everything is within range of walking, public transportations, almost like NYC. A LOT of American cities are so spread out, especially the more rural areas, thus making it impossible to walk or use public transportations.
05-05-2008, 03:14 PM
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Better run government for beter roads and public trasnportation for starters. It feels like we're living the stone age by comparison.
Also, more fuel efficient cars. When you're driving in Europe, a BMW 3 series looks HUGE, one of the biggest cars you'll see on the road on a semi-frequent basis.
Over here, I'd guess that 1 in 3 cars I see drive by are SUVs or Pickups. Perhaps 1 in 40 in Europe.
People are smarter about it, basically.
Also, more fuel efficient cars. When you're driving in Europe, a BMW 3 series looks HUGE, one of the biggest cars you'll see on the road on a semi-frequent basis.
Over here, I'd guess that 1 in 3 cars I see drive by are SUVs or Pickups. Perhaps 1 in 40 in Europe.
People are smarter about it, basically.
05-05-2008, 03:57 PM
#20
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IMO if there was anything better than the IC engine we whould have heard about it. Evin Prius etc. use IC engine. It's here to stay and we don't pay too much for gas or else we would not buy if it was not worth what they are charging now.
For example if bottled water was not worth whatever it sells for no one would buy it.
For example if bottled water was not worth whatever it sells for no one would buy it.