rockville

Perhaps you should reread what I said then think a bit more before replying again. You are saying because one GM car has an interior that isn't up to someone's liking that ALL GM rental cars have inferior handing and interiors vs other rental cars. I didn't realize the Camaro was the only GM rental car. I would have assumed they also sold say the Cruise and the Malibu to a few rental companies. I'm sure you have an expert opinion based on hearsay regarding those cars as well. Benchmarking a rental in the US against other rentals in the US would make more sense than benchmarking a US car vs a European rental. For your argument to be valid you should benchmark against other cars commonly rented in the US, not Europe or Australia where the Camaro is not often rented. If the average non-GM rental in the US is no better or worse than the average GM rental then your whole argument is full of crap. You do understand that as a rule the US car market typically has lower rent interiors vs a similar sized car overseas. This is true whether we are talking about GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota or whom ever.

It was clear that you were slagging on GM without having all the facts together and now you are trying to defend the statement rather than admitting it was an off the cuff comment and shouldn't be taken seriously.

NuncoStr8

I can recognize fecal matter by smell, and so I don't swallow it. YMMV

I may form an opinion based on the first-hand testimony of others, but I don't pretend my repetition of what others have said is the same as knowing. First-hand testimony may form my opinion, but my second- or third-hand report is of little use to others.

And while simply repeating what has been published in magazines and broadcast on television might carry weight with others similarly without any first-hand experience, it carries ZERO weight with people with first-hand experience. I have first-hand experience, as do many other people, so your third-hand reports of what we've all heard and read just comes across as petulant ignorance. Stop it. You have plenty of first-hand experiences that can inform others. Refrain from insisting that repeating things you've heard is more important than what you've done.

It's not that complicated - the opinions of people who have no real experience are useless. What kind of mind believes otherwise?

aozora

Having driven an SS and other VY, VU Commodores (including a de-tuned V8 Supercar which isn't really a Commodore anymore) - perhaps comparing to a Camaro or similar it may have handling prowess or when comparing to similar cars but definitely not in the larger playing field.
High speed stability though is somewhat noteworthy but because of the weight and potentially suspension setup, transitions and low speed cornering can get quite loose (on the car I drove anyway, not heavily modded by any means). Steering feedback is somewhat dull but not horrendous. A fun car to drive under power but I wouldn't associate handling prowess with it personally

Just for fun to add... the de-tuned V8 Supercar however was awesome to drive. Surprisingly nimble, weight issue not as apparent (for obvious reasons), feedback still felt a bit dull but much better than it's original form. The power delivery is worlds apart from the S2000 ahah. For the local Aussies here (or even visiting people to Melbourne who love cars), I'd recommend jumping into one of the V8 Supercars at one of the Calder park raceway days for fun

For reference: I have driven quite a number of different Japanese, few European (Including 1 Ferrari ) and a few local Aussie cars

nofearofdanger

Perhaps you should reread what I said then think a bit more before replying again. You are saying because one GM car has an interior that isn't up to someone's liking that ALL GM rental cars have inferior handing and interiors vs other rental cars. I didn't realize the Camaro was the only GM rental car. I would have assumed they also sold say the Cruise and the Malibu to a few rental companies. I'm sure you have an expert opinion based on hearsay regarding those cars as well. Benchmarking a rental in the US against other rentals in the US would make more sense than benchmarking a US car vs a European rental. For your argument to be valid you should benchmark against other cars commonly rented in the US, not Europe or Australia where the Camaro is not often rented. If the average non-GM rental in the US is no better or worse than the average GM rental then your whole argument is full of crap. You do understand that as a rule the US car market typically has lower rent interiors vs a similar sized car overseas. This is true whether we are talking about GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota or whom ever.

It was clear that you were slagging on GM without having all the facts together and now you are trying to defend the statement rather than admitting it was an off the cuff comment and shouldn't be taken seriously.
[/quote]

You misunderstood me in the first place. I wasn't slagging off rental cars. I was referring to the SS as a rental car, because it starts life as one, ala Motor Trend. You aren't really arguing against anyone but yourself here. I never generalized anything.

nofearofdanger

So now that you're finished side stepping the point of the argument, are you saying that these American cars (GT500, ZL1, SS etc) ARE well built and have good real world (other than straight line horsepower) performance?

Yes I recognize cars like the ZR1 Corvette are very capable, but the others do not appear to be.

Hey Nuncostr8, why don't you use your "first hand experience" to describe to me how well built these cars are, or how well they perform under real world conditions?

All you've done is attack my method of observation without providing any concrete claims to back up what you're saying.

rockville

Perhaps you should reread what I said then think a bit more before replying again. You are saying because one GM car has an interior that isn't up to someone's liking that ALL GM rental cars have inferior handing and interiors vs other rental cars. I didn't realize the Camaro was the only GM rental car. I would have assumed they also sold say the Cruise and the Malibu to a few rental companies. I'm sure you have an expert opinion based on hearsay regarding those cars as well. Benchmarking a rental in the US against other rentals in the US would make more sense than benchmarking a US car vs a European rental. For your argument to be valid you should benchmark against other cars commonly rented in the US, not Europe or Australia where the Camaro is not often rented. If the average non-GM rental in the US is no better or worse than the average GM rental then your whole argument is full of crap. You do understand that as a rule the US car market typically has lower rent interiors vs a similar sized car overseas. This is true whether we are talking about GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota or whom ever.

It was clear that you were slagging on GM without having all the facts together and now you are trying to defend the statement rather than admitting it was an off the cuff comment and shouldn't be taken seriously.
[/quote]

You misunderstood me in the first place. I wasn't slagging off rental cars. I was referring to the SS as a rental car, because it starts life as one, ala Motor Trend. You aren't really arguing against anyone but yourself here. I never generalized anything.
[/quote]
Look at your original quote. Are you referring to the Camaro as a rental or rentals from GM? The Camaro is hardly a common rental. A few Camaros are sold as rentals but this isn't an Impala. The primary market for Camaros isn't rentals. Since you know what you meant and have run around your meaning perhaps you could clarify your original post. Did you mean business as usual that the Camaro didn't have a great interior or business as usual GM doesn't make a great interior or perhaps something else?

"really arguing against anyone but yourself here." You can say it but you didn't explain it. I'm calling BS.

"I never generalized anything." I'm calling more BS

nofearofdanger

Perhaps you should reread what I said then think a bit more before replying again. You are saying because one GM car has an interior that isn't up to someone's liking that ALL GM rental cars have inferior handing and interiors vs other rental cars. I didn't realize the Camaro was the only GM rental car. I would have assumed they also sold say the Cruise and the Malibu to a few rental companies. I'm sure you have an expert opinion based on hearsay regarding those cars as well. Benchmarking a rental in the US against other rentals in the US would make more sense than benchmarking a US car vs a European rental. For your argument to be valid you should benchmark against other cars commonly rented in the US, not Europe or Australia where the Camaro is not often rented. If the average non-GM rental in the US is no better or worse than the average GM rental then your whole argument is full of crap. You do understand that as a rule the US car market typically has lower rent interiors vs a similar sized car overseas. This is true whether we are talking about GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota or whom ever.

It was clear that you were slagging on GM without having all the facts together and now you are trying to defend the statement rather than admitting it was an off the cuff comment and shouldn't be taken seriously.
[/quote]

Also - I've noticed you're always vehemently defending GM, do you have connections to the company?

nofearofdanger

Perhaps you should reread what I said then think a bit more before replying again. You are saying because one GM car has an interior that isn't up to someone's liking that ALL GM rental cars have inferior handing and interiors vs other rental cars. I didn't realize the Camaro was the only GM rental car. I would have assumed they also sold say the Cruise and the Malibu to a few rental companies. I'm sure you have an expert opinion based on hearsay regarding those cars as well. Benchmarking a rental in the US against other rentals in the US would make more sense than benchmarking a US car vs a European rental. For your argument to be valid you should benchmark against other cars commonly rented in the US, not Europe or Australia where the Camaro is not often rented. If the average non-GM rental in the US is no better or worse than the average GM rental then your whole argument is full of crap. You do understand that as a rule the US car market typically has lower rent interiors vs a similar sized car overseas. This is true whether we are talking about GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota or whom ever.

It was clear that you were slagging on GM without having all the facts together and now you are trying to defend the statement rather than admitting it was an off the cuff comment and shouldn't be taken seriously.
[/quote]

You misunderstood me in the first place. I wasn't slagging off rental cars. I was referring to the SS as a rental car, because it starts life as one, ala Motor Trend. You aren't really arguing against anyone but yourself here. I never generalized anything.
[/quote]
Look at your original quote. Are you referring to the Camaro as a rental or rentals from GM? The Camaro is hardly a common rental. A few Camaros are sold as rentals but this isn't an Impala. The primary market for Camaros isn't rentals. Since you know what you meant and have run around your meaning perhaps you could clarify your original post. Did you mean business as usual that the Camaro didn't have a great interior or business as usual GM doesn't make a great interior or perhaps something else?

"really arguing against anyone but yourself here." You can say it but you didn't explain it. I'm calling BS.

"I never generalized anything." I'm calling more BS
[/quote]

I mean relative to other companies from EU and Japan, America makes cars with crap build quality.

nofearofdanger

Thought I made that clear from the start - obviously not.

nofearofdanger

If you call me out based on my lack of first hand experience, why not speak to dombey about it. His review of the interior is exactly what I'm talking about.