Anrosphynx

^^^ A Holden Commodore....

aka- Pontiac G8 GXP.

nofearofdanger

Rental-spec American cars built like crap and drive like crap?
[/quote]
Ah, yes, generalizations based on outdated truths.
[/quote]

I'm basing this on other people's opinions yes, but these people's opinions matter.

Watch Chris Harris review the ZL1 and the GT500, watch Motortrend's reviews on the same cars. Watch Clarkson's review on the Corvette. Watch ANY review on these American musle cars and find me one that says they have good build quality inside or out. There is one consistent thing that is played out about these cars - they offer CHEAP high horsepower straight line zip and nothing else. The brakes get cooked around a track because the car is too heavy, the chassis isn't strong enough to cope with the power. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

Motor Trend called the GT500 and ZL1 "rental cars" because they "start life as a 20,000$ rental car."

Prove to me this isn't ignorant hearsay and I will believe you.

Do I need to sit in one and drive one to truly know what's going on? Maybe, but I also value these people's opinions.

I don't need to eat crap to know it tastes bad.
[/quote]

Blah blah blah...
I don't think you have thought about what you said or what I said in reply. I didn't say the Camaro was good. I made no claim one way or the other. It could be a complete POS that rapes your cat. What you implied was that it was prototypical of some breed of car. That is the part I'm disputing. The rest of what you are ranting about is defending an ill-defined point that I wasn't disputing.

For you to be correct all domestics used as rentals must have cheap interiors and drive like crap as compared to the competing models from Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan etc.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, what?

Wouldn't it gone without saying that I was benchmarking it against other cars around the world?

Try putting together a coherent argument next time.

nofearofdanger

Rental-spec American cars built like crap and drive like crap?
[/quote]
Ah, yes, generalizations based on outdated truths.
[/quote]

I'm basing this on other people's opinions yes, but these people's opinions matter.

Watch Chris Harris review the ZL1 and the GT500, watch Motortrend's reviews on the same cars. Watch Clarkson's review on the Corvette. Watch ANY review on these American musle cars and find me one that says they have good build quality inside or out. There is one consistent thing that is played out about these cars - they offer CHEAP high horsepower straight line zip and nothing else. The brakes get cooked around a track because the car is too heavy, the chassis isn't strong enough to cope with the power. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

Motor Trend called the GT500 and ZL1 "rental cars" because they "start life as a 20,000$ rental car."

Prove to me this isn't ignorant hearsay and I will believe you.

Do I need to sit in one and drive one to truly know what's going on? Maybe, but I also value these people's opinions.

I don't need to eat crap to know it tastes bad.
[/quote]

Wait, you are in Australia right? You have the Holden Commodore, which is what the Camaro is based on, and that car is almost universally praised (by the exact SAME people you quoted) and one of the things that is noted about the Commodore is not only its engine, but its handling prowess.

How do you explain that?
[/quote]

I explain it through your ignorance.

Go and post in the Australian forum and say that Commodores are praised for their handling prowess.

Over here we refer to them as land yachts. I'll let you work that out.

Excuse me while I die from laughter.

nofearofdanger

Rental-spec American cars built like crap and drive like crap?
[/quote]
Ah, yes, generalizations based on outdated truths.
[/quote]

[cluelessblather]...[/cluelessblather][/quote]

Wait, you are in Australia right? You have the Holden Commodore, which is what the Camaro is based on, and that car is almost universally praised (by the exact SAME people you quoted) and one of the things that is noted about the Commodore is not only its engine, but its handling prowess.

How do you explain that?
[/quote]


Consider this individual thinks Clarkson is something other than an uninformed comedian-wannabe. When one admits one has no first-hand opinions and doesn't care, any further discussion is obviously useless. He's going to believe what he wants to believe regardless of the facts.
[/quote]

Yes, because one needs first hand experience with everything to form an opinion or objective judgement about it

Anrosphynx

This from a guy that has never driven a mustang or Camaro..

Yes, let me laugh at you...

nofearofdanger

So what you are saying is that because I haven't personally driven one (they aren't sold here) - I shouldn't be allowed to form an opinion based on what professionals have to say? Even if we ignore Clarkson (I agree he is a bit of a buffoon) and we look at all other tests available, it is the same comments again and again, regarding build quality and real world performance.

Even my friend who had a GT500 Supersnake agrees that the interior was rubbish and it couldn't turn or break that well. What more proof do I need than someone who has owned one, and a high spec one at that.



and yes it was tracked too.

I will allow you to continue thinking that Commodores are "renowned for their handling prowess" and send you on your merry way.

Mezza

ORental-spec American cars built like crap and drive like crap?
[/quote]
Ah, yes, generalizations based on outdated truths.
[/quote]

I'm basing this on other people's opinions yes, but these people's opinions matter.

Watch Chris Harris review the ZL1 and the GT500, watch Motortrend's reviews on the same cars. Watch Clarkson's review on the Corvette. Watch ANY review on these American musle cars and find me one that says they have good build quality inside or out. There is one consistent thing that is played out about these cars - they offer CHEAP high horsepower straight line zip and nothing else. The brakes get cooked around a track because the car is too heavy, the chassis isn't strong enough to cope with the power. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

Motor Trend called the GT500 and ZL1 "rental cars" because they "start life as a 20,000$ rental car."

Prove to me this isn't ignorant hearsay and I will believe you.

Do I need to sit in one and drive one to truly know what's going on? Maybe, but I also value these people's opinions.

I don't need to eat crap to know it tastes bad.
[/quote]

Wait, you are in Australia right? You have the Holden Commodore, which is what the Camaro is based on, and that car is almost universally praised (by the exact SAME people you quoted) and one of the things that is noted about the Commodore is not only its engine, but its handling prowess.

How do you explain that?
[/quote]

Commodore... Handling prowess...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAH

Yeah, a sedan used as a taxi over here is known for its handling. That was a good one.

A GT500 or ZL1 is miles ahead of a Commodore, they manage to do well enough due to sheer torque and power over handling, but in terms of chassis tuning, response and feel they're way behind the competition.

Then again they're so ridiculously cheap I guess they can be forgiven.

nofearofdanger

And for your information - I'm not just having a dig at American cars. Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons interiors are also built like crap too.

NuncoStr8

Those "professionals" have driven one and you have not. Their opinion *might* mean something, but your does not. Do you get it yet?

nofearofdanger

Those "professionals" have driven one and you have not. Their opinion *might* mean something, but your does not. Do you get it yet?
[/quote]

This is effectively what you are saying:

1. If you hear something from someone else, that information does not mean anything, regardless of their professional status
2. You cannot formulate your own judgements based on someone's opinion, regardless if they are professionals, because the information they provide does not mean anything
3. (Therefore) Anything that isn't experienced first hand renders your opinion on the subject meaningless
4. (Therefore) only if people have first hand experience on the matter are they allowed to form an opinion and have it mean something

I will use the same example again - do you need to eat fecal matter to know it will taste bad?

Oh wait, your opinion is worthless because you don't have first hand experience.